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What it's like to be cancelled

noahbradley.com

381–390 of 613 posts

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#381
post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can simply follow the first Wikipedia footnote on "cut all ties", in the opening paragraph of the article.

Ok since you don't post links I'll assume you are referring to: 'Bradley’s statement came the morning after concept artist Betty Jiang posted accusations on Twitter about a “bald headed crusty assed ‘well known’ artist who went around groping female devs,” saying that she hoped “to never see you and your shitty v-neck shirts at any workshops or conventions.”' He apologized for a lot of things, but I don't see him adm…

As I said: you can see screenshots of threads where he was accused both of "groping" and of taking advantaged of intoxicated women at events, and he responded with a link to the apology. Follow the first footnote from the Wikipedia article, and then click the screenshot on the first message in the Twitter thread.

I have no way of judging the veracity of either side of this argument, but it sure looks like the allegations against him were specific --- at the time.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#382
post #11

I think the biggest problem with Twitter is that we can’t determine a denominator. Twitter knows, but we don’t know. 100 people tweeting about how this guy is bad might be indicative of a general consensus or might just be 100 people out of a billion Twitter users. People then interpret it as general consensus and pile on. We know the numerator but since we don’t know the denominator of people who didn’t comment, or…

Absolutely. It's all about context, and these platforms do a terrible job of allowing one to see the big picture.

Think how many platforms don't even give a path for negative feedback, or merge the positive and negative feedback into one and present it as if that was a consensus.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public apologies are the new porn and bullying people into providing them is a real addiction for some. These depressed people use "consequences" as a brief hit of superiority, allowing them to escape the reality of their own failed lives. ...and as quickly as it picks them up, it is gone again, and they then need to search for that next dose of "justice". Complexity, self-reflection, nuance, are all distractions fro…

I don't think this is the only reasonable reading of the situation, and your framing here is pretty inflammatory. We're supposed to get calmer and more careful in our writing as topics get complicated; see the guidelines at the bottom of the page.

This person's career was destroyed because of an online mob.

...and that mob is not psychologically healthy. The online vengeance mob is a toxic and destructive part of our world.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#384

Maybe the author could consider an alternate title for his article. "I engaged in sexual misconduct with multiple women. This behavior may imply life long psychological consequence for them. Yes they are the victims but let's take a minute consider its made me feel." I think we all know the answer...who cares.

Well so what's your point, this guy is irredeemable and should never be able to get his life back? At what point is the bloodlust sated and sufficient justice is served?

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#385

I'm terrified of interacting with female coworkers. I don't have a "-ist" bone in my body. When I review code, I only see the code and not the person that wrote it. When I pick a team, I look at engineering ability and nothing else. I abhor discriminatory behavior and would be the first to put my career on the line to defend someone getting discriminated against. And of course I keep anything sexual FAR FAR FAAAR out…

Good! Nobody actually wants you to do the other thing that you're already not doing. Keep your head down. Be positive. Keep trying to move the needle: but in a neutral, inoffensive way. And everything will get better.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand your comment. He was cancelled over actions IRL. Whether he had a Twitter or not, other people do and they know his name and where he works.

He was cancelled because he wrote a public apology on Twitter and that's how people found out about him. Twitter is completely to blame here - maybe along with being so naive to think that writing an apology on Twitter is a good idea.

> Twitter is completely to blame here

Don't blame knives for killing people, blame people who kill people.

I think the issue here is that Twitter came too quickly into our lives, and people did not have time adapt to the new reality.

Three hundreds years ago people would happily join a mob on a square trying to burn a woman because she is a witch or a traitor or unfaithful. Today people would just tell them they are coo coo and continue with their business.

After a couple of years people will learn to react to Twitter cancelling mob the same.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was cancelled because he wrote a public apology on Twitter and that's how people found out about him. Twitter is completely to blame here - maybe along with being so naive to think that writing an apology on Twitter is a good idea.

> Twitter is completely to blame here Don't blame knives for killing people, blame people who kill people. I think the issue here is that Twitter came too quickly into our lives, and people did not have time adapt to the new reality. Three hundreds years ago people would happily join a mob on a square trying to burn a woman because she is a witch or a traitor or unfaithful. Today people would just tell them they are…

Sorry I should have said "Twitter culture" not Twitter. And I do hope you are right about it eventually fading away.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#388
post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No offense but this is such a silly thing to say. EVERYONE sees race/age/sex. I strongly disagree here. When I'm reviewing code, I look at the code. It could be written by ANYONE. I don't ever think "this woman" or "this " when reviewing code! > "I like those earrings, they look great" - no problem. > "Hey I really like the way that shirt fits your body" - problem You don't see how it can be easy to accidentally st…

>I strongly disagree here. When I'm reviewing code, I look at the code. It could be written by ANYONE. I don't ever think "this woman" or "this " when reviewing code! But that's not what you said. And it's not really the point either way, because we're talking about providing feedback on the code, which was written by a person with an age and a race and a gender. And when you sit down with that person to provide feed…

> But that's not what you said. And it's not really the point either way, because we're talking about providing feedback on the code, which was written by a person with an age and a race and a gender. And when you sit down with that person to provide feedback, you see their race, age, and gender. Saying you don't is just silly.

Maybe you and I mean different things when we say "see age/etc". Yours is probably more correct semantically, but when I say "see" I mean specifically adjusting my code review depending on age/etc. When I say I don't "see age/etc" I just mean that it doesn't influence how I evaluate someone's work professionally.

> I honestly can't tell if you created the throwaway for entertainment or having a real conversation but at this point I'm leaning towards the former because I genuinely don't believe you're confused about how to make an appropriate vs. inappropriate comment to a coworker. It doesn't really matter if they're male or female, if you tell someone that an outfit makes their body look X - you're probably going to get in trouble unless you happen to be good friends outside of work.

Your mildly toxic responses are a great reason why I don't engage on this subject matter at all (until now). And the reason why I created a throwaway account.

You seem to be very sure about yourself and how everyone else should act. You also seem to lack any compassion by default for what people struggle with. Honestly, your responses have even further convinced me that my approach is the correct one (for my own good/safety/etc).

My comment was me genuinely opening up. It's something I struggle with internally. If you work with me, you'd never know it.

> It doesn't really matter how you're perceived. If you document your reviews, and you do it fairly, the work will speak for itself. It has nothing to do with male vs. female. I've done this for decades, someone will inevitably accuse you of a bias, and you refer back to your documentation, notes, and the original work. They can mis-read all they want, the only thing HR cares about is a defensible position for your feedback.

Or I can just not engage at all. What do I stand to gain from having to deal with documentation/notes/etc in those cases? In environments where critical feedback is encouraged (or even required) then all I need to do is be less critical than the most critical people. Or in other words, only provide feedback that someone else has provided in the past.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#389
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Dan Harmon apology is very good and, as far as I understand (I'm not on Twitter), was generally well received: https://time.com/5100019/dan-harmon-megan-ganz-sexual-harass...

That was a good read. ...but if anything it sort of highlights the scope of the problem. Here is a man who could not handle working with a woman, and took it out on her. Shitty behavior, for sure. This is an order of magnitude better than being accused of being serial rapist. ....but if you think about it. Ted Harmon got away with this because he is so so so highly respected in the field. AND EVEN HE, was effectively…

> Ted (sic) Harmon got away with this because he is so so so highly respected in the field.

And he's an extraordinarily smart and self-aware person, too. Most people aren't really in a position to do this much introspection and analyze the situation. If this is the bar of apology that's required, pretty much nobody is going to clear it.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#390

Earlier this year when Richard Stallman was re-instated to the Board of the FSF, there were a lot of tweets expressing dismay. To one of them, I replied that I personally don't think he has done anything wrong at all - and linked to a well-known article by a woman who defended him better than me. While I found some support among a few people, the amount of hate I received shook me a bit. People started adding me to l…

The whole Stallman thing was a shit show, and I think he was thrown off the board for all the wrong reasons. I was still glad so see him go, simply because FSF was a better organization without him.

But yeah, the railroading that he got was wrong.

He should have been removed simply because he has become an obstacle. The FSF does a lot of good things, but occasionally they do dumb things, and it seems (I could be wrong) that the dumb things come down to assuaging Stallman's ego.

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