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America has a drinking problem

theatlantic.com

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Re: America has a drinking problem

#381

Post by ashtonkem »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #345
ashtonkem wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said I don't think solitary drinking is necessarily as bad as the article makes it out to be all the time One of my great bugaboos is these cultural definitions of alcoholism that are independent from the actual amount of alcohol consumed. You know “you’re only an alcoholic if you drink alone” or “you’re only an alcoholic if you pour your own drinks” (apparently this is a meme in Japan?). Every culture that co…

> "you’re only an alcoholic if you pour your own drinks” (apparently this is a meme in Japan?) (source: I've got family in Japan). It's polite in Japan to serve others and then let someone serve you. Otherwise it's "tejaku" (pooring oneself's drink). In, say, France/Belgium it's different: the one who serves from the bottle serves everybody and ends up serving himself. Now, obviously, when you're drinking alone there…

Just to be extra precise; I’m not trying to imply that there’s anything wrong with customs around how a good friend or polite host serves other people. I’m just railing against the “you’re only an alcoholic if you “ tropes.

I’ve never been to Japan, but I’d heard that “you’re only an alcoholic if you pour your own drinks” is a trope there. The question mark in my original post was to underscore my uncertainty.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#382

Post by the_af »

TameAntelope wrote: post #332
Bostonian wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"we also have a very painful past and present" I don't see why that is more true of the U.S. than say Germany, Japan, Russia, China etc.

We've both refused to own our past national transgressions the way Japan and Germany have, we have more diversity than all of those countries, and have also not scrubbed all mention of said painful past from our national history like Russia and China.

Germany I can see, but I thought Japan also refused to own many of their past national transgressions.

I can stretch your analysis even further, don't some in Japan turn to heavy drinking as a way to cope with societal distancing, alienation and isolation? I read about it, at least.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#383

Post by rascul »

fokinsean wrote: post #100
trts wrote: post #29

I decided to give up alcohol for a year. That was three years ago and doubt I will ever go back. Aside from having better sleep than at any other point as an adult, I truly enjoy the activities I partake in just as much, if not more, than when I still paired them with alcohol. It took about 6 months to stop feeling like I was missing out, and now I feel like everyone else is. Anxiety in general is noticeably lower (t…

> The end of the drinking activities don't leave me sleepy or craving bad food. I can go home and read a book or get some work done. This is one of my biggest motivations for reducing my drinking during the week. Even having just one or two beers after work, the probability that I read or work on a side project drops close to 0.

When I'm drinking, the probability that I work on a side project is also much lower than when I'm sober. However when I do work on one, as long as I don't pass my Ballmer Peak, I work very hard on it. Sometimes I even do good work. Sometimes it's even good the next day.

I have been working on lowering my alcohol consumption, though. It's been working, slowly, over time.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#384

Post by notdeadofdrink »

bradleyjg wrote: post #201
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #153

It's hard to reduce the US to a single culture. Alcohol consumption habits vary greatly from region to region, or even city to city depending on where you live. I've noticed that heavy drinkers tend to cluster with other heavy drinkers. The more you see your friends and coworkers binge drinking regularly, the more you feel it's an acceptable and even common behavior. Likewise, non-drinkers tend to cluster with each o…

That’s a great (surprising) reference. Intellectually I know functional alcoholics exist but it’s still tough to come to grips with that many people drinking that much alcohol. I’m curious what it looks by age, geography, and household income.

I'm in the top decile of that posted chart. Some weeks I'll be higher, some weeks I'll be lower. Usually lower, but always above the ninth. Posting on a throwaway for what should be pretty obvious reasons.

In the past week I've had about three bottles of gin in various cocktails, assorted craft beers of the IPA or imperial stout variety, a couple of whiskeys, and an aperitif most days. I've been drinking mostly while sitting in front of my TV with my iPad out, doing some light programming, working on photo editing, or playing games. Normally I'd spend more time at bars with friends, but it's not exactly a great time for that.

I don't drink before or during work hours, but most hours after work I've either got a drink or I'm making one.

I'm 30ish, I make decent money doing devops, and I like to think the quality of my work exceeds that of most of my peers -- I've certainly gotten feedback saying as much from line managers.

I don't want to be too specific about anything, but I am happy to answer questions, if anyone has any.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#385

Post by pedrosorio »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #153

It's hard to reduce the US to a single culture. Alcohol consumption habits vary greatly from region to region, or even city to city depending on where you live. I've noticed that heavy drinkers tend to cluster with other heavy drinkers. The more you see your friends and coworkers binge drinking regularly, the more you feel it's an acceptable and even common behavior. Likewise, non-drinkers tend to cluster with each o…

> It's hard to reduce the US to a single culture. Alcohol consumption habits vary greatly from region to region, or even city to city depending on where you live.

This is also true of Europe. What the parent said about France/Croatia/Germany does not reflect the drinking culture in other places.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#386

Post by 4b11b4 »

Drugs, alcohol, food so readily available in our society --- I make up random rules to protect myself against society.

For example: - 3 drink limit, unless it's some kind of special occasion - don't eat, drink, smoke after 8pm

Re: America has a drinking problem

#387

Post by blhack »

joekrill wrote: post #265
blhack wrote: post #116

Some of my most cherished memories are those where I was out drinking wine and having really good food with my wife and friends. When people were telling stories about Jesus, the central figure of their religion, one of the miracles they told of was him turning water into wine. This is held up as one of the most important stories in their entire moral system. When the pyramids were being built, the builders were paid…

This is horrible advice. Just because something has been done a certain way for a long time does not mean it's something we should continue. In a lot of cases it just means we didn't have the knowledge that it was so bad for you. And that's exactly where alcohol fits in. We know alcohol is bad for us in just about every way. So there's really no such thing as "under drinking". Cigarettes. Cocaine. Tanning. Not wearin…

A more charitable interpretation of what I wrote would be to understand that I was tying drinking to the happy memories I have with my wife. This was the first sentence of the post you are replying to.

So in this case “under drinking” could be interpreted as a metaphor for being overly cautious and missing out on something enjoyable. Life is dangerous. Snowboarding, going on a road trip, swimming in the ocean, petting a dog, eating street food, traveling. These are all dangerous things that kill people every year. I stand by the statement that we should be cautious of anything prescribing that we avoid these activities completely.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#388

Post by vincent-toups »

quadyeast wrote: post #249
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #153

It's hard to reduce the US to a single culture. Alcohol consumption habits vary greatly from region to region, or even city to city depending on where you live. I've noticed that heavy drinkers tend to cluster with other heavy drinkers. The more you see your friends and coworkers binge drinking regularly, the more you feel it's an acceptable and even common behavior. Likewise, non-drinkers tend to cluster with each o…

that chart does not make sense to me unless >10% of Americans are AA. I can't think of anyone, besides non-drinking Alcoholics, that have less than 1 drink/wk

I'm not a non-drinker but I would say I have less than one drink in a typical 4 month period.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#389

Post by bradleyjg »

notdeadofdrink wrote: post #384
bradleyjg wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a great (surprising) reference. Intellectually I know functional alcoholics exist but it’s still tough to come to grips with that many people drinking that much alcohol. I’m curious what it looks by age, geography, and household income.

I'm in the top decile of that posted chart. Some weeks I'll be higher, some weeks I'll be lower. Usually lower, but always above the ninth. Posting on a throwaway for what should be pretty obvious reasons. In the past week I've had about three bottles of gin in various cocktails, assorted craft beers of the IPA or imperial stout variety, a couple of whiskeys, and an aperitif most days. I've been drinking mostly while…

I appreciate the response. Mostly I hate throwaways but this is an appropriate use.

As I’ve gotten older (I’m 40ish) hangovers have gotten worse and worse. It’s now to the point if I have 4-5 medium beers on Friday night I can write off Saturday. Has your subjective experience of hangovers gotten easier over time?

Re: America has a drinking problem

#390

Post by refurb »

TameAntelope wrote: post #261

I'm going to generalize, but the US is more diverse (rank #90 vs #151 for Germany, #169 for France, #111 for Croatia [0]) and we also have a very painful past and present that makes us acutely aware of our inability to socialize. America also has a cultural obsession with self-reliance/liberty/frontier-as-a-virtue which makes "socializing" a bit of a taboo concept, in a weird way. It's a crutch to "need" to be around…

Socializing is a crutch in the US? That seems like an absurd claim. Maybe in big urban cities, but go outside of that and socialization is a key part of life and it’s view as weird if you don’t do it.
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