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Why Russians do not smile (2002)

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Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#381

Post by einpoklum »

rsj_hn wrote: post #139
einpoklum wrote: post #122

> Very often Western people criticize Russians for being too gloomy and unfriendly because we never smile WTF? I'm very often around Russian and other Slav people and many of them smile plenty. > In Western culture, and especially in the United States, the smile is an indication of well-being ... In Russian culture the smile is identified with laughter. Russians do not smile unless something funny happens and provide…

> WTF? I'm very often around Russian and other Slav people and many of them smile plenty. Yes, but this is about smiling at strangers . Random people on the street, or in the subway. What to many slavs is a type of stupid grin is to many Americans a sign of "being nice". We are not talking about actually smiling, say when you feel genuine warmth towards a friend.

That's not what the article claims. It claims Russians laugh when something is funny, and that's not the case.

And - plenty of Russians smile during casual interactions with people they don't know personally.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#382

Post by tnolet »

xwolfi wrote: post #370
durnygbur wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to work in European international corporation acknowledging and respecting different introvert/extrovert personality levels, countless languages, completely different approaches in handling problems and challenges determined by one's origin and upbringing, different needs in socializing, e.g. Nokia at its peak. I dislike the American corporate environment, their soulless "corporate culture" media materia…

Yeah but european companies dont exist, we re all different. Im French for instance, and we certainly dont work like the german. For us it s all about the game, the gossips, the fightings. Everyone is the CEO and it s hard to remember we have a job to do end of the day. In Germany I ve heard things are more...rule following. I work in China now - it's way more result oriented. The corporate culture BS we have it ever…

This is so right. There is no European culture. Even neighboring countries with similar values (NL and DE) are wildly different with regard to workplace.

I The Netherlands, work stops on Friday around 16:0-ish. In Germany, I had regular meetings at 18:00 on Friday. I honestly thought they were joking.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#383

Post by lovelyviking »

nly wrote: post #365
stordoff wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not American (British), and it's never felt aggressive/threatening, but smiling in a way that shows my teeth has always felt exceptionally forced. It doesn't stand out as strange when other people do it, but it just doesn't feel like a natural reaction for me.

I'm a smirker also. It has the unfortunate side effect of standing out in photos, where I envy people with their full smiles. When you think about it though, a full teethy smile is a weird thing.

"When you think about it though "

When you think about anything it becomes weird and deserves smile. Having said that I think since everything is weird then you can say that almost nothing is weird. And the key is not to think about it too seriously.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#384

Post by scrollaway »

ido wrote: post #324
scrollaway wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your willingness to help is nulled by your lack of initiative. I understand your point and i know it's a difficult question to deal with sometimes, especially during depression. But remember that you're not those people's top priority. That sentence means you are allowed to ask them for stuff, but it doesn't mean they're going to drop everything and take you into their care right now without you taking a few steps…

The problem is that a lot of the time it feels like meaningless platitudes. Like they feel they have to say something out of politeness but don't actually want (or able) to help you. What would have been better? To just say "I'm sorry you're having a hard time". If you don't mean something, don't say it.

Are you assuming/implying that the people who say "let me know if you need anything" don't actually mean it? Because I don't believe that's generally the case, especially if they're actually friends and not just random acquaintances.

I don't personally say that sentence outside of a work context; usually I would say "call me if you need to talk", but I won't take proactive action unless I believe my friend either wants me to or need me to.

At the end of the day, someone makes a choice to interpret this as a platitude. How about taking up the person on their offer?

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#385

Post by Arech »

daxfohl wrote: post #178

Another thing I've noticed uniquely with some Russian colleagues, and I've never quite known the meaning of, but I assume is Russian cultural attribute, is silence. A few times I've e.g. been explaining something to a Russian colleague, I'll go on and on, and when I'm done ... nothing. This always gets me anxious. What does it mean? Does the person think it's the dumbest thing he's ever heard? Did the person not unde…

It's definitely not a national but a personal trait (I'm native Russian)

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#386

Post by flurdy »

tnolet wrote: post #382
xwolfi wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but european companies dont exist, we re all different. Im French for instance, and we certainly dont work like the german. For us it s all about the game, the gossips, the fightings. Everyone is the CEO and it s hard to remember we have a job to do end of the day. In Germany I ve heard things are more...rule following. I work in China now - it's way more result oriented. The corporate culture BS we have it ever…

This is so right. There is no European culture. Even neighboring countries with similar values (NL and DE) are wildly different with regard to workplace. I The Netherlands, work stops on Friday around 16:0-ish. In Germany, I had regular meetings at 18:00 on Friday. I honestly thought they were joking.

In Norway the office is desolate after 13:00 on a Friday. Only the youngest and the ones without children stick around till 16:00, and not many of them either.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#387

Post by dahfizz »

Merem wrote: post #354
kmarc wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The accusative case in guteN indeed comes from wishing it for the other (English is grammatically not expressive enough here). This is the same BTW in Hungarian. Even better, in HU we still have the form of "I wish (you) a good{Acc} morning", however a bit less formal way you can say just "a good{Acc} morning" This simplification happened to German earlier too. In fact, my German old lady neighbor still to this day s…

Yes and no. It does come from the longform well-wishing but it has been a separate greeting for a decently long time which is reflected by the fact that "guten Morgen" became "Guten Morgen" in the spelling reform 25 years ago. (Though, they did allow both variants a decade later (as is the case with a lot of other words), "Guten Morgen" is still the recommended one.) So that means if you are wishing someone a good mo…

The fact that you need 25 years of cultural background to understand what Guten Morgen means is the whole point. You could similarly explain why Americans asking "how are you" is not a real question; the whole point is that the culture differs from the literal phrase, which makes it difficult for non-native speakers.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#388

Post by lotsofpulp »

ido wrote: post #323
jwilber wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this doesn’t come off belittling but my only reaction to reading this is that some people can find a reason to get upset over anything.

I independently had the same thoughts as geocrasher during similar experiences (and haven't told my friends the question annoys me), and I would say your reaction is uncharitable. Just because you can't relate doesn't mean "some people can find a reason to get upset over anything".

I have the same reaction as jwilber. If I think you are in a healthy state of mind, then “let me know if you need (or want) anything” is sufficient initiative. Even if you are my kid/SO/parents/siblings.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#389

Post by beebeepka »

zarq wrote: post #151
gsk22 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're misunderstanding what the phrase "how are you" means in the US. It is not a literal question, but a set phrase with implicit social rules for "correct" responses. This doesn't mean the person asking is faking kindness - but also understand they're not actually asking for a rundown of how your life is going. Negative responses to the question are ok, just not deeply personal answers. Tom Scott has an excellent…

Fun experiment, try asking "how are you" a second time. A lot of Americans will respond instinctively, without wondering why you asked again.

Funny. Is the second round more honest or just as shallow?

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#390

Post by ACS_Solver »

wruza wrote: post #359
Wxc2jjJmST9XWWL wrote: post #223

Quite a lot of US culture can come off as phony to (Eastern) Europeans. Friend of mine went to the US for a business schooling event and said people were completely incapable of honest criticism. They would sugar coat criticism under 10 layers of phony praise. He was the only one who actually said something was bad outright, if someone gave a bad presentation. He attributed it to cultural difference. Guess it is rela…

[Americans] would sugar coat criticism under 10 layers of phony praise It really annoys the hell out of me. What’s wrong with just saying what’s wrong? The last example here on HN was a web version of flutter, where everyone was like “it’s amazing, so awesome, much controls” and only four comment levels deeper someone noted that it’s an utter crap that stutters at scroll on top hardware, cannot select text, cannot zo…

This is also a big annoyance for me. I regularly interact with people of different cultures, and find that interpreting feedback is something I have to context switch for often, always needing to remember whom I am speaking with.

My native culture is quite straightforward in how things are phrased. As such, I find it easy to work with e.g. Germans, who routinely use phrases such as "this is unacceptable" in feedback. Which doesn't mean anything horrible, it just means that the specific thing being discussed is, in its current state, unacceptable for the final product. But Americans would likely phrase the same feedback as "needs some work". If American feedback includes "unacceptable" then you've probably really messed up.

The most difficult part is recognizing when Americans are genuinely impressed by something. Since regular positive feedback is full of "this is amazing" and "we love it" (thing that would just get a "this is good" at home), it's hard for me to recognize when something has really exceeded expectations and they really do love it.

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