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Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

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Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#381

Post by scarface74 »

pfranz wrote: post #338
Fezzik wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I’m confused, but aren’t these two different things? As the OP stated, any streaming provider can have an app on Apple TV (ESPN, Netflix, Hulu, HBO, Amazon, Peacock, etc…) while some providers may also negotiate deals to be more prominently integrated in to the Apple TV ecosystem and/or distributed/upsold through the Apple TV+ bundle. I think they are mutually occurring circumstances… or maybe I am totally misu…

You're right that anyone can make an app and that's separate from integration with system-wide search and the TV app, but when you make an app Apple has a bunch of restrictions over signup, the language you use around signup, and Apple gets a cut. Over the years there has been drama between Netflix and Apple over it (and Spotify and Amazon Prime Video). I think it's mostly been resolved, but Apple wants apps to integ…

Apple only gets a cut if you go through them for in app purchases. Content providers do not have to offer in app purchases and many don’t. There has always been an exception for apps that only allow you to view content.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#382

Post by bogwog »

minhazm wrote: post #234
bogwog wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're willfully ignorant of the situation, then sure. Otherwise, using leverage to favor your own product over competitors despite user preference is textbook anti-competitive behavior, almost comically so: Not only does it unfairly disadvantage competitors, but it also robs consumers of choice (by ignoring their preferences). I would love to see one of the meetings that lead to absurdly unethical and borderline/…

It's like Microsoft sponsoring the NFL and so they have to use Surface tablets. That means they don't have Apple, Samsung, Lenovo, and other competitors tablets. Is that anti-competitive? If so, then every business out there must be anti-competitive. Buying ads to get yourself on a higher position in search results, buying ads on TV during primetime slots, and any behavior that makes you look better than your competi…

That's not the same thing at all. Microsoft paid money to the NFL so they use the tablets, presumably more than the other bidders. That's what competition looks like.

A better example would be if Microsoft forced the NFL to use their tablets by threatening to invalidate all of the Windows and Office licenses in their organization. Would you say that's "leverage" or anti-competitive behavior?

Imagine if Samsung offered $400m to the NFL so they use Samsung computers. Microsoft's "leverage" could prevent the NFL from taking that offer, and there's nothing Samsung can do about it. That's anti-competitive behavior: one company unfairly disadvantaging competitors to the detriment of the customer (NFL in this case, which wouldn't get the $400m)

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#383

Post by inetknght »

bogwog wrote: post #382
minhazm wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like Microsoft sponsoring the NFL and so they have to use Surface tablets. That means they don't have Apple, Samsung, Lenovo, and other competitors tablets. Is that anti-competitive? If so, then every business out there must be anti-competitive. Buying ads to get yourself on a higher position in search results, buying ads on TV during primetime slots, and any behavior that makes you look better than your competi…

That's not the same thing at all. Microsoft paid money to the NFL so they use the tablets, presumably more than the other bidders. That's what competition looks like. A better example would be if Microsoft forced the NFL to use their tablets by threatening to invalidate all of the Windows and Office licenses in their organization. Would you say that's "leverage" or anti-competitive behavior? Imagine if Samsung offere…

> Microsoft paid money to the NFL so they use the tablets, presumably more than the other bidders

How do I, as another consumer of Microsoft products, get in on this "get paid to use Microsoft products" deal?

Oh right, I can't. Because it's not a competition. It's an anti competition.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#384

Post by jhallenworld »

wccrawford wrote: post #371
nvrspyx wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My TV has Roku built-in and it’s extremely frustrating. It’s super slow, it uses some surround sound virtualization (or something) for the stereo speakers with no option to turn it off despite being terrible (you can barely hear speech, but music and effects are extremely loud), the remote has shortcut buttons for things I don’t even use (google play and sling), there’s advertisements every time I turn on my tv and o…

I've had TVs with Android, LG's OS, Samsung's OS, etc... They all suck. I currently have a really nice Sony with Android TV, but I had so many problems with the built-in Android that I plugged an nVidia Shield box into it instead and all those problems went away. The other OS's all had their own issues, but the worst part of them was, like your Roku, the slowness. Everything is massively underpowered. Nobody wants to…

The last two AirBNBs had new TV with Roku built into the TV. I have to say they worked fairly well.. a little slow, but not bad at all.

I have a Roku at home, but also an nVidia Shield. The Shield is fast, but it has a lot of problems. First is that you must install an app to disable the Netflix button. If you enter Netflix, it does not easily let you leave the app and the button makes it far to easy to accidentally enter it. Second, the YouTube app on the shield has a weird problem where it goes into some kind of stagger mode where it updates the screen only every few seconds (maybe it gets into this mode if the bandwidth is temporarily too low). You need to rewind the video to get it to play again properly. Finally the triangular remote is terrible- it's falling apart.

Roku has none of these problems. I should say I have the older RF Roku remote, not the newer cheap LED one.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#385

Post by LocalH »

the_lonely_road wrote: post #105

This kind of tactic works. I have 3 rokus in a box collecting dust and two brand new Fire sticks that replaced them. I didn't want to do this but 85% of my streaming time is spent on Twitch.tv and I wasn't able to use my Roku's to stream it anymore.

Look into "twoku"

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#386

Post by tnzm »

FriedrichN wrote: post #363
sircastor wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason I picked and stay with Roku is that they aren't married to a single Big Tech co. I already suffer the lack of a proper YouTube app on my Echo Show because Amazon and Google are having a tiff. I don't want to pick an ecosystem and live exclusively inside of it. As it is, I'm already in a mixed household (Me with iOS and my wife with Android) and it's a pain to deal with the lack of cross-platform playing to…

This whole thing where you have to sacrifice everything to big corps and buy new devices every year makes me not want to bother consuming any media at all to be honest. When I see people wrestle with all kinds of devices, services, and subscriptions I just get sad and start thinking if the juice is actually worth the squeeze and coming to the conclusion it really isn't.

So much this.

Sadly, you and I are exceptions - caring about it only enough to voice our disregard for it. Usually, by the time a person is old enough to not need the churn of mass culture to be relevant to their peers, they're usually hooked on some brand or other of high-quality spam. Unlike street drugs, mass media rots your brain with full societal approval.

This is nothing new of course - many writers, musicians, and filmmakers of the 20th century have expounded on the soul-crushing effects of commercialized culture. As expected, they have ended up being more obscure to the general public than the ones who embraced it. It was weird seeing for the first time a mainstream artist or work that risked to be slightly more original than the industry average (in order to reach a previously uncaptured audience segment) being lauded as some sort of genius, while its subject matter was the same old "hey you, yes you, buy a bigger TV!"

Allocating resources and incentives (economy) and collectively deciding what's valuable and worth incentivizing (culture) are two separate layers of the social "stack". Advertising couples them in the worst possible way, effecting a positive feedback loop of wastage. The possibility that the emergent adtech hivemind's ultimate purpose is to measure and hone the efficiency of this mass pacification strategy is Orwellian par excellence.

My answer to this? Just enough economic productivity to afford unabashed dirtbaggery on the cultural plane. Anyone who does not share this perspective is watching a different movie.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#387

Post by katbyte »

salamandersauce wrote: post #370
katbyte wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AppleTV has never shown me ads so I’m not sure where you saw them? The new Apple TV just announced has a much better looking remote

The top banner showing you movies to rent, sign up for Apple Music, download this app? It's just advertising. The new remote looks alright. Knowing Apple it's probably still too thin and easily slipped through couch cushions.

That’s what air tags are for! Shocked they didn’t put that tech into the remote.

I think that must be how you configure it? The too banner does not show that for me - it grabs the shows I e been watching from infuse tv and. Puts them there

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#388

Post by jonnycomputer »

jonnycomputer wrote: post #128

Google calls the accusation baseless. But I'd bet there would be documentation if it were true ..

Google calls the accusation baseless. But it is quite reasonable to assume that a lot of documentation is produced during the course of such negotiation, so I would expect there to be some pertaining to the items at issue. Am I wrong?

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#389

Post by LexGray »

salamandersauce wrote: post #370
katbyte wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AppleTV has never shown me ads so I’m not sure where you saw them? The new Apple TV just announced has a much better looking remote

The top banner showing you movies to rent, sign up for Apple Music, download this app? It's just advertising. The new remote looks alright. Knowing Apple it's probably still too thin and easily slipped through couch cushions.

Apple TV app banners (ads) are easily adjusted. Just put different apps on the top row. I mostly have folders up there and it rotates through the app banners when you have the folder selected.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#390

Post by warkdarrior »

hedora wrote: post #318
etempleton wrote: post #142

HBO Max was delayed in appearing on Roku because of negotiation breakdowns. In the case HBO it was Roku that seemed to have the demands. They are looking at revenue anywhere they can, but if their position weakens look for Google, ATT, and others to simply forgo working with them. I think Roku is in a perilous position in general. They generated a lot of buzz on Wallstreet with their high user counts. They also purch…

They have 38% market share on new TV’s sold, and that’s not including the standalone players. Also, they just announced a YoY doubling of advertising revenue. Their low end device is $30, and provides a best of class (but HD) experience. I don’t really see how they can realistically be undercut on price, unless competitors started paying people to use their devices. Do you want to deal with a janky streaming device f…

I am always willing to pay extra to get rid of ads.
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