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Early-Retirement Update

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Re: Early-Retirement Update

#381

Post by silicon2401 »

tasuki wrote: post #318
silicon2401 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Making music" they never release. Picking up little "pass the time" jobs. And these are people that aren't living "leanFIRE" > It seems like such a nihilistic way to live. You're just floating along the stream of life. Things worked out for you, but you have no further passion or inclination to improve the world? No problems you could set yourself to solving? You seem to assume or take for granted that releasing m…

So, castle or farm? You can't just handwave this question away so easily! Would you hire people to take care of the castle or farm for you? I hear both are quite a lot of work! How exactly would you be spending your time, apart from making music?

excellent question, by f-you money I mean serious f-you money (we're daydreaming, after all), so my vision is a literal stone castle as well as a nice farm. ideally these would be maintainable just by myself so maybe a modest fort-like castle and tiny homestead farm. not necessarily a disney castle and hundreds of acres of corn.

aside from the farm likely taking up all my time (for however long i'm able to sustain that), pursue all my interests: exercise, language, reading, writing, watching movies/tv, taking photos, making films, lifting weights, kayaking, hiking, rock climbing, cooking/baking, biking, playing video games, drawing, spending time with loved ones, studying, the list is endless.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#382

Post by silicon2401 »

munificent wrote: post #256
silicon2401 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Making music" they never release. Picking up little "pass the time" jobs. And these are people that aren't living "leanFIRE" > It seems like such a nihilistic way to live. You're just floating along the stream of life. Things worked out for you, but you have no further passion or inclination to improve the world? No problems you could set yourself to solving? You seem to assume or take for granted that releasing m…

I think it's important to separate out the moral and psychological components here. I agree with you that if your bills are paid and you're harming no one, then you have no moral obligation to do anything more than sit on your butt and play videogames. It's your life. At the same time, humans are a social species. We have evolved brains and intrinsic motivation reward systems that only give us the real deep kinds of…

oddly, I somewhat agree with your position but in a reversed way.

> There are of course outliers who can spend indefinite days just binge-watching TV happy as a clam. But most of us are wired like border collies. If we don't have a herd to take care of some real reason to get out of bed in the morning, we go crazy.

I don't think these are outliers, I think these are a surprising majority. It's the classic bread and circuses or Soma concept: as long as people are fed a steady supply of moderate entertainment and material enjoyment, they are content to idle. And I would go further and say that you somewhat contradict your earlier position, which to me came across as being interested in solving problems and improving the world, not just your family/tribe.

I would also point out that binge-watching TV is different from creating music, never to produce it. Kafka created amazing works that he specifically wanted destroyed. So from my perspective it's unclear if you look down on anything that isn't sacrifice for someone else's gain (external reward), created for sharing with others (external reward), or engaging with others (external reward). I'm not sure where you get your data that most humans are like border collies, but at least based on your comments it seems like you really value socially-based activities, so you may be overlooking the many others who don't need social interaction or external reward/response to find meaning and fulfillment.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#383

Post by pbourke »

paulcole wrote: post #338
dimmke wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had friends with trust funds, who just seem to dither around in life. "Making music" they never release. Picking up little "pass the time" jobs. And these are people that aren't living "leanFIRE" It seems like such a nihilistic way to live. You're just floating along the stream of life. Things worked out for you, but you have no further passion or inclination to improve the world? No problems you could set yours…

> you have no further passion or inclination to improve the world? No problems you could set yourself to solving? Nope! I know who I am and what I’m capable of. If I could, I would do literally nothing besides wake up, go to the gym, go to the coffee shop, read, watch TV, and surf the internet until I die. I know this because I took several years off and did exactly this until I ran out of money. Best years of my lif…

"This above all: to thine own self be true"

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#384

Post by bulletwolf »

mapme wrote: post #377
bulletwolf wrote: post #171

I've got 5 years of early retirement under my belt, and I feel like I've had the inverse experience of the OP. The first two years were an incredibly difficult transition period for me. Losing the status of being a higher up at a successful (small) company was extremely painful, especially because I didn't realize how much of a perk of the job it was. Like many others in this thread, I realized work provided a venue…

Did you tame the ego via meditation? If not what other method? Curious about the path that lead to depersonalization. It’s discussed in meditation circles as a fear some have, but really, many monks and “enlightened” are interesting characters eg. Shinzen Young

It was mostly an ad hoc CBT approach. I spent more time introspecting my motivations, and if I decided I was doing something mainly for ego gratification, I'd stop. At first, that left very little. As I said earlier, programming was out, also most gaming and working out, watching sports, pretty much anything that generated dopamine. I spent a huge amount of time listening to comedy podcasts, and the rest reading. Eventually, though, a big positive was opening up more mental space for my partner, whom I'm sad to say I neglected pretty badly during my working days. After that, I spent more time with a local community group, and, yes, puttering around the house making home improvements.

I actually did try joining a meditation group, but I had a very bad time. I have a loud and constant inner monologue, but when I calmed my thoughts, all I experienced was primal negative emotion. Some mixture of shame and terror. I don't mean this literally, but it felt like a demon was trying to posses my mind. The instructor was a very nice person, but not a professional, so maybe I could have had a better time with a better guide.

Finally, I've stopped trying so hard to suppress my ego. I'm very curious what living in a society that supports low ego would be like, but the one I live in doesn't. Ego has many used (especially in a corporate setting, it's a tremendous asset), and the experiences of ego and dopamine are part of the richness of life, even if, when viewed at a society level, they often seem so dysfunctional and defector-ish.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#385

Post by sershe »

dimmke wrote: post #102
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #68

I had to quit reading any FIRE (financial independence, early retirement) blogs because they were full of people headed down this same path: Extreme frugality, bare minimum savings, assuming their lifestyle would never change and nothing would ever go wrong. Retiring at 30 sounds great, but no one's life goes exactly to plan for next the 30-40 years until traditional retirement age. People change, expectations evolve…

I've had friends with trust funds, who just seem to dither around in life. "Making music" they never release. Picking up little "pass the time" jobs. And these are people that aren't living "leanFIRE" It seems like such a nihilistic way to live. You're just floating along the stream of life. Things worked out for you, but you have no further passion or inclination to improve the world? No problems you could set yours…

It's not nihilistic, it's more absurdist. I think, for myself, it is in fact a better way to live life. Sure, I admire people with a life-long drive be it Musk or Michael Jordan (or even some ancient conquerors who clearly did it for lulz and not ideology), but I personally only feel driven for short, narrow projects at most. And the impression that I get is that this is already above median ;)

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#386

Post by bulletwolf »

jjav wrote: post #351
bulletwolf wrote: post #171

I've got 5 years of early retirement under my belt, and I feel like I've had the inverse experience of the OP. The first two years were an incredibly difficult transition period for me. Losing the status of being a higher up at a successful (small) company was extremely painful, especially because I didn't realize how much of a perk of the job it was. Like many others in this thread, I realized work provided a venue…

> work provided a venue to solve interesting problems with interesting people I wish there was a way to find a more balanced work culture (in the USA, other countries may have this already) to be able to continue solving interesting problems with interesting people, as you say, but also live life outside work. I'd give anything to be able to work maybe 15-20 hours a week at half or a even a third of my salary. But em…

Yes, I'd also like to work in a collaborative setting about 15 hours a week, contributing to a project or research. One thing holding me back, though, is I just can't stomach the idea of some capitalist stealing the fruits of my labor for themselves! I know, extremely hypocritical, as I've benefitted tremendously from capitalism, and continue to do so. That said, I'd be happy to give up my wealth, as long as all rich people had to, and we magically found some stable equilibrium where it stayed that way and society could still function.

I did get into open source work, for a while, contributing to improving the software I used the most. Unfortunately, that mainly resulted in work on Chrome and vscode, and other pieces of software owned by giant, richer-then-god corporations, so the same frustrations applied :p

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#387

Post by xiphias2 »

GordonS wrote: post #137
eagsalazar2 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just FIRE people, but 99% of all retirees at any age end up doing nothing of note with their time. But, and I think you aren't saying otherwise, this is also true of everyone who still has to work, while they are working. Your job is just the thing you have to do (if you are lucky you actually enjoy it). Bottom line, most people don't actually have a purpose or strong passions in their lives. Being retired young…

> Not just FIRE people, but 99% of all retirees at any age end up doing nothing of note with their time. If you spend some years just chilling and and are actually happy, then sure, why not. But there are so many retired people who do nothing, and are not happy. For example, my mother, my mother and father in law, my other father in law, my grandmother - all retired, and all do absolutely nothing but watch TV and moa…

Aging is as big problem or probably even bigger, than having a job. I'm sure your grandmother wouldn't just watch TV if she looked and felt like a 20 year old girl. She would probably go party, hang out, get drunk, travel and socialize all the time.

Chronic illnesses at any age suck as much as having aging as a chronic illness.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#389

Post by psychiatrist24 »

_carbyau_ wrote: post #323
hindsightbias wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be a class of jobs for retirees just working for health care and socialization.

So much this. Everyone gets old. How can we not want a society that would take care of them, including some form of worthwhile employment? It is an inherently selfish setup as one day you too will be old. Edit: trying to clarify my thoughts/point.

But what kind of thing do you have in mind? Afaik actually taking care of old people is backbreaking work, probably not suitable for most retirees.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#390

Post by Aeolun »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #68

I had to quit reading any FIRE (financial independence, early retirement) blogs because they were full of people headed down this same path: Extreme frugality, bare minimum savings, assuming their lifestyle would never change and nothing would ever go wrong. Retiring at 30 sounds great, but no one's life goes exactly to plan for next the 30-40 years until traditional retirement age. People change, expectations evolve…

Either I convinced myself of, or I realized quite early on, that I would not be happy if I just retired early. I need to be doing something, so I may as well be working.
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