The most important question imho: does Google use it for their own apps?
Flutter 2
381–390 of 780 posts
Re: Flutter 2
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
I just visited flutterfolio.com. The very first thing I tried to do is enter a username and Tab to the password field. But Tab just catapulted my input focus to the browser address bar. I mean, come on.
The accessibility is a bigger concern, but flutterfolio.com also A) lags on my work machine when tabbing through fields B) doesn't handle HDPI screens well (the entire interface looks blurry) C) keeps fields visually indicated as selected even when I click outside of the browser (if I start typing, is it going to go into the field or not?) D) has a separate touch mode? Touch doesn't just work? Looked up another of th…
I happen to be on a 1.5 Mbps connection at the moment, and "about a second" sounds wonderful. The demo apps I opened took closer to 30-60 seconds to load.
Re: Flutter 2
#383Earlier quoted context omitted.
Firefox is on the Google chopping block. They won't admit it but they're killing it by a thousand CSS cuts.
Why are you guys here on HN still using Chrome? There is literally not a single reason I can think of to be supporting this behemoth that is killing the open web. Firefox is excellent actually and Firebug IMO is far superior to Chrome's offering. I understand non-techies using it like they used Explorer, but come on guys.
> Firebug
Which year is this ?
Re: Flutter 2
#384Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let's say you get a JSON API that sometimes returns a list, sometimes returns an object. How do you model that in Dart?
You could create an abstract class for the base response, then implement this abstract class for the two cases one where it has a list member, and one where it contains the object. Then, using the return value with something like `if (response is listLike) { }` the IDE already knows that you are scoped to having only the list like properties, and you'd get the full help of the language. Something like that, I suppose…
Versus a sort of:
my_type = my_list | my_object
?
You can see why this is better :-)
Re: Flutter 2
#385Earlier quoted context omitted.
We're nagging because the apps suck and stick out like a sore thumb. Maybe Flutter will be the one to get there and be the holy grail of cross platform UI development, but the developer community has been burned by this promise so many times, we're going to have to see the final product before getting excited. Just because a project is ambitious doesn't mean we should all jump on board, particularly when similar proj…
I don't understand why more resources aren't being put into Qt and making that easier to use or building a more "web-developer-friendly" abstraction layer on top.
Isn't the licensing for Qt a very curious and weird quagmire? Maybe it's better these days but I remember about 10 years ago there was a weird divide and unanswered questions about if you could really take a bet on using Qt and not be violating GPL.
Re: Flutter 2
#386The idea sounds very appealing, especially to an indie developer: being able to ship your app on multiple platforms from a single codebase is kind of the holy grail. Unfortunately, the result is.... I tested this Flutter example[1], on a 16" MBP with and i7, and it is janky as it can get, it feels like I'm using a 15 year old computer. From the code it looks like the whole thing is... rendered on canvas? I'll pass. […
Well, to give counterpoint, just tested on Chrome / Windows (ok-ish CPU, decent GPU) all demos are buttery smooth no lag or jank whatsoever.
Is that a counterpoint? To me that tells me performance is going to vary between users computers, possibly due to something other than resources. That means the experience I'd be delivering won't be consistent and I probably won't be able to fix it, or even replicate it, reliably. Something that's janky everywhere can be profiled, debugged and possibly fixed. Something that has an unknown problem that only affects some users is far more problematic.
That isn't a counterpoint to say the language might be worth considering. That's an additional data point to give me reasons to not use it yet.
Re: Flutter 2
#387Earlier quoted context omitted.
The example spinner ( h https://flutter.dev/#dartpad-landing-page ) also looks pretty choppy on my Macbook Pro 16. I haven't tried on lower-specced devices, but it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.
iPad Safari on 200/100Mbps connection. * The page takes about 20s to load. * After pressing Run, nothing happens for 10s, then Click me! text appears. * On clicking the text, nothing happens. * On clicking it a few times, the page crashes and reloads.
[ disclaimer: I work on the Dart team. ]
As timsneath mentioned above, Dartpad is the dev environment. That means we ship the full Dart and Flutter SDK ahead of time as you can type/change anything in the code box. We also ship debug metadata to give better errors.
In production mode, we do a much more expensive compile to remove the parts of Dart, Flutter, and packages you don't use and to optimize/minify the rest.
It is working in Safari for me, but we've definitely appreciate bug reports if it's breaking for you (https://github.com/dart-lang/dart-pad in this case).
Re: Flutter 2
#388flutter...more like stutter
Re: Flutter 2
#389We're all complaining about how js is a bad language, tooling is a mess, and how the web is fundamentally built for documents and makes it hard to create app-like experiences. Now, Google comes and creates a whole new UI toolkit from scratch, couples it with a very beautiful SDK and component framework and offers a far better programming language than js could ever be but we're still nagging. I was also pretty disapp…
History has shown us over and over again, always bet on the web. Sure you might not like JS as a language, you might find CSS confusing and full of warts, etc. but it's here and will be here 20, 50, and 100 years from now. We're not going to just sit up and throw away 25+ years of progress and history on the web overnight. Tech like java applets, flash, silverlight, etc. come and go like fads. Who knows if Google wil…
[Flutter Eng. Dir here]
I guess I would like to think we are betting on the web. :) All of the Flutter founders came from Web backgrounds. After years of attempting to make the Mobile web awesome, we forked Chrome and built a new thing. Now we're bringing it back to the Web.
The web is a big tent. I think there is a lot of room for innovation here. We're attempting with Flutter to push on some of the newer aspects of the Web. There are still some pieces missing from the Web to make things like Flutter really shine (e.g. a multi-line text measurement API could help get rid of a ton of code in Flutter Web). As you saw in the keyonte today, we're working with Chrome to continue to improve life for developers.
I don't think Flutter will ever be the right solution for all of the Web. Certainly not today. For example, we don't even support SEO or great indexability yet (although it's long been planned for and will be coming soon).
I just want to believe we can do better. We, developers, can all push development (including the web) to be better. Hopefully Flutter will do it's part.
Re: Flutter 2
#390We're all complaining about how js is a bad language, tooling is a mess, and how the web is fundamentally built for documents and makes it hard to create app-like experiences. Now, Google comes and creates a whole new UI toolkit from scratch, couples it with a very beautiful SDK and component framework and offers a far better programming language than js could ever be but we're still nagging. I was also pretty disapp…
I just visited flutterfolio.com. The very first thing I tried to do is enter a username and Tab to the password field. But Tab just catapulted my input focus to the browser address bar. I mean, come on.
> flutterfolio.com
I can't experience this problem, for my browser only displays for this site a beautiful, immaculate, plain white page :)