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Coinbase S-1

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Re: Coinbase S-1

#381

Post by bhupy »

joubert wrote: post #302
bhupy wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This conflates "Central Banks" with ordinary "banks" that hold assets in vaults. The two are comparable in the same way that Java is comparable to JavaScript. The steel-man argument is that the monetary policy of central banks can cause hyper-inflation of a fiat currency, and holding onto an asset that is immune to that, and potentially even being able to transact with that asset is a reliable way to break free from…

> it depreciates because of the Fed The dollar depreciates / appreciates due to various economic factors, not just because of actions by the Federal Reserve. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/051115/top-econo...

I don't think anyone disagrees that there are multiple causes of depreciation. The key takeaway from your link is that USD value is a combination of (1) Fed policy as well as (2) economic growth and corporate profits (or lack thereof).

The argument is that (2) is an inevitability of the market, whereas (1) is political. Crypto adherents aim to solve for (1) and accept the inevitability of (2). And deciding to use Coinbase to store (and exchange) your crypto is not at odds with that philosophy.

To be clear, I live my entire life on fiat, and most of my savings are in traditional financial instruments. What I take issue with is the misrepresentation of the case for crypto; when it comes to assets like Bitcoin, Coinbase is not equivalent to a central bank nor will it ever be.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#382

Post by moneywoes »

csomar wrote: post #363
jmcqk6 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> an unstable society or one facing high inflation What are the chances that in an environment where the USD is not usable, there is an available network and electricity that makes bitcoin usable?

Bitcoin can actually be quite resilient to that. Also the USD failing, doesn't necessarily mean a global world war. The US can go the way of the Soviet Union or the British Empire.

Can you elaborate on that please

Re: Coinbase S-1

#383

Post by arcticbull »

arnaudsm wrote: post #44

Many have forgotten why we used cryptocurrencies in the first place. The original promise of cryptocurrency was to become independent from banks. In the end CoinBase (like every exchange) is a great product, but just a bank. It's centralized, hackable, has economies of scale, etc.

So just to recap the current Crypto situation.

- Scaling solution: Visa.

- Custody: BNY Mellon.

- Trading: Centralized, trustful exchanges.

- Unlimited money printer: Tether.

- The same insane unregulated over-leveraged garbage derivatives products that triggered this whole horror show in 2008: DeFi.

- Volatility: Unbelievable.

What exactly has been achieved? This is the first IPO I plan to short on day one.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#384

Post by [deleted] »

anonymousab wrote: post #271
hanniabu wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because they view crypto like people viewed the internet/computers back in the day. "It'll never work it's too complicated. No need for it, mail workers just fine. It's just used for illegal activity. Why do I need a productivity boost when I have my assistant to do everything. "

> It'll never work it's too complicated It usually seems far more nuanced to me. People seem somewhat skeptical on some finer points of cryptocurrencies, blockchains and distributed ledger ideas. But then they see supporters trumpeting 'this is good for Xcoin' on every piece of news, good or bad, and can't help but get a snake-oil-salesman-y feeling from that. Everything in life has many ways in which it can or does…

[deleted]

Re: Coinbase S-1

#385

Post by arcticbull »

temp8964 wrote: post #288
cactus2093 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t speak for everyone there, “we” don’t all have the same reason. I like Bitcoin as a diversification for being a “better version of gold” - it has the scarcity and you can physically own it but it is much easier to store and send anywhere in the world if needed. These properties also mean that in a pinch, if you live in an unstable society or one facing high inflation it can work as an alternative financial syste…

Can you "physically own" Bitcoin? Or what does "physically own" mean exactly? I kind of understand what "physically own" gold means, but not sure it means the same as "physically own" Bitcoin. Getting downvoted on this. I am not complaining about the downvotes, but seriously, please enlighten me...

The keys own the coins, you're ancillary.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#386

Post by capeterson »

silentsea90 wrote: post #352
goat_whisperer wrote: post #338

Bitcoin made a lot of sense when I first read about it in 2011. Back then I feel like it was primarily used as an anonymous payment method. Think dark web/silk road type stuff. I certainly don't endorse that behavior, but bitcoin as a payment method made a lot of sense. Bitcoin makes 0 sense to me as an investment. It's pure speculation with no underlying intrinsic value. It's the Dutch Tulips 10.0 basically. And now…

At what point either in years or market cap or price per coin will you start to question your mental model of Bitcoin?

For me personally, my belief in bitcoin is not tied to its monetary value at all. In fact, it's likely inversely related, as the more that it gains value, the more publicity it gets as a money-maker, which draws in more speculators.

I'm overall "just fine" with Ethereum though. There's a lot of speculation going on, but it's also a rather productive idea that I hope takes off in the future.

I'm a fan of cryptocurrency in general, just not really Bitcoin.

edit: Thinking about your question though, maybe it could be interpreted as "if the market cap/price of BTC was more stable, would you like it?" and the answer to that is yes, however still I don't believe that it provides much utility compared to other cryptocurrencies.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#387

Post by bhupy »

grey-area wrote: post #152
bhupy wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I like my fiat and central banks, thank you very much. I do too! But some people don't. And it appears that there are now options for everyone, which seems...good?

Entirely unregulated markets are not good, they are awful, and they can go on for quite a while before blowing up, taking the life savings of lots of ordinary people with them.

I mean, no disagreements that unregulated markets can turn out disastrously (and hurt ordinary people).

But regulated currencies can also turn out disastrously bad (see: Venezuela, Zimbabwe hyperinflation, Nigeria, Argentina). This hurts ordinary people too. There's an Argentinian in this very thread that's chimed in with their personal experience.

I won't pretend one approach is strictly superior to the other, nor am I suggesting that one ought to put 100% of their life savings into BTC or US T-bonds, but having options allows the ordinary person to hedge. That's the point. Optionality is good, and because BTC isn't legal tender (nor will it ever be), nobody is forced to use it anyway.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#388

Post by from »

charcircuit wrote: post #117
ketamine__ wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that decentralized fiat on ramp look?

Fiat on ramps are already decentralized. Anyone can sell cryptocurrency for fiat. There is no centralized list of people who are allowed to sell cryptocurrency for fiat.

I believe it can be found at https://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/msbstatese....

Re: Coinbase S-1

#389

Post by danschumann »

arnaudsm wrote: post #44

Many have forgotten why we used cryptocurrencies in the first place. The original promise of cryptocurrency was to become independent from banks. In the end CoinBase (like every exchange) is a great product, but just a bank. It's centralized, hackable, has economies of scale, etc.

The reason is robot property rights, isn't it?

If I sell you a robot, which is capable of cleaning and trading stocks, and that robot owns $100 of crypto, it can trade and randomly give you things, if it profits. This is possible with crypto.

It'd be doable with fiat.. i suppose the robots would be considered a trust or something, and they'd just be "leased" to the customer or something, but that sounds like bs. I just wanna sell people a robot that also owns crypto.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#390

Post by RandomLensman »

cactus2093 wrote: post #176
arnaudsm wrote: post #44

Many have forgotten why we used cryptocurrencies in the first place. The original promise of cryptocurrency was to become independent from banks. In the end CoinBase (like every exchange) is a great product, but just a bank. It's centralized, hackable, has economies of scale, etc.

Don’t speak for everyone there, “we” don’t all have the same reason. I like Bitcoin as a diversification for being a “better version of gold” - it has the scarcity and you can physically own it but it is much easier to store and send anywhere in the world if needed. These properties also mean that in a pinch, if you live in an unstable society or one facing high inflation it can work as an alternative financial syste…

An "unstable society" and "high inflation" or two very different things. Bitcoin could easily help (and does in some parts of the world) in the latter case.

In an unstable or even collapsed society things are different. While true that historically gold could be used to buy things it might be at a very depressed buying power or it can be used when dealing with a stable outside society. A hedge for a unstable society is something that actually has "need", for example, antibiotics. Even then, once violence is a standard part of life and interactions the usual calculus of interactions changes.

History provides examples for societies that kind of collapse but sort of kept going on money surrogates that could get daily necessities at a high price; history also has examples for the violent kind of collapse/instability and there I would not count on bitcoin or gold to help absent access to violence.

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