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Uber drivers are workers not self employed, Supreme Court rules

bbc.co.uk

381–387 of 387 posts

Re: Uber drivers are workers not self employed, Supreme Court rules

#381

Another blow for the free market. Now we just have to wait for the unintended consequences. Just like minimum wage laws are put in with good intent but will backfire, so will this decision.

The UK has had a national minimum wage since 1998.

The only significant "blow" to the free market i can think of happened in 2008 with the proof that millionaire bankers have no accountability and will have their jobs saved by the state, no matter the cost.

Re: Uber drivers are workers not self employed, Supreme Court rules

#382
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that world customers flow back to the many minicab companies and Uber competitors in London, which will need to take on more drivers. It's not like Uber is the only app like this in London. I have at least four different ones on my app, and Uber is rarely the cheapest as it is.

So minicab companies pay more and charge less than uber? How does that work economically? And wouldn't everyone just switch to the mincab companies, both drivers and passengers, if that's the case?

Is it impossible to operate a mini-cab business more efficiently than Uber to a similar standard? I suspect it's pretty hard NOT to.

Re: Uber drivers are workers not self employed, Supreme Court rules

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't make sense to me. I did some contract work a couple years ago and: 1. The company set the hourly rate which meant they dictated how much I could earn 2. The company set the contract terms 3. The company told me what features to build and could penalize me if I decided not to build some 4. The company could evaluate my performance any way they wanted and terminate the contract at any time for no cause If…

1. As a contractor I negotiate my rates with the companies I work with. Uber drivers cannot do this. 2. I also negotiate contract terms. Uber drivers cannot do this. 3. Uber drivers are penalized for not taking rides, which is more akin to refusing a paid opportunity than building a feature. Again as a contractor I do negotiate the work I can and want to do. 4. For this point I agree with you. I can also terminate th…

In the USA I can ignore rides at will without penalty, which is a recent development (last year or two IIRC). I only drive when it's busy and the rates are up. Uber offer's me a rate, and I choose whether to accept it or not. Even before this, though, I could just go offline when it wasn't busy enough or the rates were too low.

I still have no power to negotiate contract terms though, as the only other company I could contract with is Lyft, and their terms are basically the same.

Nevertheless, driving for Uber is much much more profitable than it was in the early days. Increase in ride demand is the main reason. Tips can also put you to $30/hour pure profit if you know how to be entertaining.

Except now the pandemic has destroyed the market.

Re: Uber drivers are workers not self employed, Supreme Court rules

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A number of people don’t like it because the delivery company messes up the order (delivers cold, etc) and the restaurant takes the blame.

This situation is no different to any other resale situation - you address your complaint to the person your transaction was with.

A customer buys from a restaurant on a platform, gets the food served cold, and instead of blaming the platform for bad coordination, blames the restaurant for serving it cold, or blames the driver for serving it cold, often by publicly posting on the same platform which screwed their order, hence deflecting blame from the platform onto the driver or the restaurant.

Re: Uber drivers are workers not self employed, Supreme Court rules

#385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. As a contractor I negotiate my rates with the companies I work with. Uber drivers cannot do this. 2. I also negotiate contract terms. Uber drivers cannot do this. 3. Uber drivers are penalized for not taking rides, which is more akin to refusing a paid opportunity than building a feature. Again as a contractor I do negotiate the work I can and want to do. 4. For this point I agree with you. I can also terminate th…

In the USA I can ignore rides at will without penalty, which is a recent development (last year or two IIRC). I only drive when it's busy and the rates are up. Uber offer's me a rate, and I choose whether to accept it or not. Even before this, though, I could just go offline when it wasn't busy enough or the rates were too low. I still have no power to negotiate contract terms though, as the only other company I coul…

Thanks for sharing your experience, that's good to know about those recent developments.

Re: Uber drivers are workers not self employed, Supreme Court rules

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So minicab companies pay more and charge less than uber? How does that work economically? And wouldn't everyone just switch to the mincab companies, both drivers and passengers, if that's the case?

Is it impossible to operate a mini-cab business more efficiently than Uber to a similar standard? I suspect it's pretty hard NOT to.

And wouldn't everyone just switch to the mincab companies, both drivers and passengers, if that's the case?

Re: Uber drivers are workers not self employed, Supreme Court rules

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. As a contractor I negotiate my rates with the companies I work with. Uber drivers cannot do this. 2. I also negotiate contract terms. Uber drivers cannot do this. 3. Uber drivers are penalized for not taking rides, which is more akin to refusing a paid opportunity than building a feature. Again as a contractor I do negotiate the work I can and want to do. 4. For this point I agree with you. I can also terminate th…

I don't get why you're so focused on the negotiation part. I'm guessing your services happen to be very in demand, which is great and gives you the ability to successfully negotiate. There are lots of other contractors that fail to negotiate and end up accepting a client's first offer. Are they not actually contractors? For #3, drivers may be penalized for being logged in and rejecting rides (though even that may hav…

> There are lots of other contractors that fail to negotiate and end up accepting a client's first offer. Are they not actually contractors?

Is there a 3rd party coming in and deciding what their rates are going to be? Or is it between them and the client?

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