Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc • Hacker News Board

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#381

Post by afuchs » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

nullc wrote: post #368

afuchs wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the allegations about hunters laptop were transparently fraudulent, why do the gmail originated messages pass DKIM validation? The refusal to release the full messages with complete headers was a point of contention in the original reporting of this story. If enough information was released, to let the public inspect the messages and verify the DKIM signatures themselves, this is a new development that goes beyo…

https://github.com/robertdavidgraham/hunter-dkim It's not a very new development, but most or all mention of it was removed on many platforms including on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24942678

> https://github.com/robertdavidgraham/hunter-dkim

That appears to be one single email with limited context. The README.md in that repo outright states that the context for the email is absent and does not necessarily provide concrete proof of any specific narrative:

> ... Remember that while the email is validated, the context isn't. It's possible this reflects a secret meeting to conspire with Vice President Biden. Or, it's possible the guy attended one of the many Washington D.C. social functions whereby people shake hands with politicians and exchange pleasantries. As Richelieu is claimed to have said "Give me six words by the most honest of men and I'll find something to hang him by". Give me an email dump from the most honest of persons, and I'll pull one out of context to hang them in the court of social media. ...

> ... I personally have many doubts about where this email came from, and the overall "narrative" they are trying to push. Regardless, I can validate the basic facts about this email.

Are there any more emails with full headers?

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#382

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 7:52 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #336

djsumdog wrote: post #216

I just want to say, I called this years ago: https://battlepenguin.com/politics/the-new-era-of-corporate-... They came for Alex Jones and I said nothing Because I didn't believe in gay frogs[1] They came for Daily Stormer and I said nothing Because I knew nothing about Daily Stormer and believed everything the media I said about them because their site was gone They came for ever heterodox opinion on Reddit and I sai…

This is like "first they came for the socialists, then they came for the socialists, then they came for the socialists, and then they came for the socialists".

[deleted]

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#383

Post by greesil » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 7:54 PM UTC

meekmockmook wrote: post #76

greesil wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but these threats were actually carried out. Not the first time for Parler either, as I recall.

I mean, I watched as people on Twitter and Facebook Live coordinated to torch one of my favorites neighborhoods in L.A. this summer. I saw looters tweet about breaking into a drug store in Sherman Oaks. You can't say it's just talk there. The damage to Melrose and DTLA had to have been in the tens of millions, if not more.

Perhaps shutting down all social media would be a net gain for society. I will miss my "buy nothing" group though.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#384

Post by yes_no_maybe » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 7:55 PM UTC

tharne wrote: post #29

Run your own metal.

I know this is largely infeasible for anyone to do, but I really do hope the internet becomes more decentralized as a result of all this.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#385

Post by djsumdog » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 7:56 PM UTC

metiscus wrote: post #367

djsumdog wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Big Tech will at least pay lip service to the idea of moderation You are not really watching if you think that is what is happening. They are controlling the narrative. They are promoting some topics and pushing down other. Facebook deleted WalkAway, a group that had full moderation, did not allow any posts which called for violence, and which was pure political speech. Reddit is deleting each and every sub that go…

I believe that companies are largely on their own team, neither right nor left. How long before labor begins to be de-platformed for unionization efforts in the big tech companies? I know that there are already allegations that Amazon is acting in an extremely anti-labor way. Will the current argument of "platforms have a right to choose what content they will allow on their service" (which is a common argument for w…

> I believe that companies are largely on their own team, neither right nor left

Wat? Dude, Twitter, Reddit and Facebook's moderation policies are clearly left to far-left. They've done no blanket banning for calls to violence from the left. None of these people have had their pages, accounts or posts censored:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eQzLcO5qhY

and they clearly called for the types of violence we saw in 2017 and every year since up to and including now:

https://youtu.be/BXR3d22BhHs

edit: but yes, your point about labour is spot on. I can see that happening next for sure.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#386

Post by tomnipotent » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 7:57 PM UTC

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #231

tbenst wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is almost certainly false. For example, see the arrest of the leader of the Proud Boys (for events prior to Capitol, but played active role on Parler encouraging proud boys violence that day): https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/several-well-know...

>For example, see the arrest of the leader of the Proud Boys (for events prior to Capitol, but played active role on Parler encouraging proud boys violence that day) You seem to be talking about Enrique Tarrio, the latino leader of the "Proud Boys" who was arrested when he stepped off his plane, for the crime of burning a blm symbol in DC the month before. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/proud-boys-leader-arres.…

Why do you think Tarrio was in DC on the 6th, then?

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#387

Post by moate » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 7:57 PM UTC

jcranmer wrote: post #339

moate wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the AWS lawyer is going to make the following claims: 1- This action (dropping Parler) is within the actions established in our ToS. 2- Parler's very goal is to attract these sort of demographics and similar actions have been taken in the past (Stormfront comes to mind) The only chance this has is if Parler has language in their contract requiring that 30-day notice of service termination. My guess is tha…

The claim on contract violation is probably their strongest claim. Or probably would be were the exhibit of the contract offered not this: https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.294664... To be fair, that does look more like a mistake--the HTML-to-PDF conversion appears to truncate a decent amount of text per page. Ooh, just noticed, the contract also has this gem: > Disputes will be resolved by bindin…

As I just said to my wife, you'd have a better shot with a lawsuit against the sky because you got a sunburn than you would trying to sue AWS for booting you from their servers. At least the sun never got you to agree to a draconian ToS.

I also liked their idea that AWS is trying to protect their contract with Twitter because users are leaving Twitter(hosted by AWS) for Parler (which was hosted by AWS at the time). If I have a glass of beer in my left hand and switch to my right, have I lost my glass of beer? How would that possibly benefit AWS unless somehow Parler negotiated better terms than Twitter? If anything, the opposite seems likely.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#388

Post by shrimpx » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 7:58 PM UTC

xkeysc0re wrote: post #183

Nacdor wrote: post #80

Glenn Greenwald has been investigating the planning of the Capitol protests and says "it was largely done on Facebook". So far he hasn't been able to identify a single person who was arrested and active on Parler: > Do you know how many of the people arrested in connection with the Capitol invasion were active users of Parler? Zero. The planning was largely done on Facebook. This is all a bullshit pretext for silenci…

And his claim was refuted in mere minutes. An extremely disingenuous argument on his behalf. Glenn has done great work in the past for which he should be commended, but these days he's a contrarian in search of hot takes. It's just how the Twitter / Patreon journalist economy operates. He will throw a huge hissy fit about the mainstream media but then happily go on Fox News with Tucker.

I agree with this take on Greewald. That Twitter thread, and his recent substack article, is effectively attacking private property, and implying that corporations ought to be compelled to transmit and amplify all speech. According to greewald, if I send a letter to the editor to the New York Times, and it’s not published, that’s a violation of my free speech. Patent nonsense.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#389

Post by curryst » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 8:00 PM UTC

moate wrote: post #387

jcranmer wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claim on contract violation is probably their strongest claim. Or probably would be were the exhibit of the contract offered not this: https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.294664... To be fair, that does look more like a mistake--the HTML-to-PDF conversion appears to truncate a decent amount of text per page. Ooh, just noticed, the contract also has this gem: > Disputes will be resolved by bindin…

As I just said to my wife, you'd have a better shot with a lawsuit against the sky because you got a sunburn than you would trying to sue AWS for booting you from their servers. At least the sun never got you to agree to a draconian ToS. I also liked their idea that AWS is trying to protect their contract with Twitter because users are leaving Twitter(hosted by AWS) for Parler (which was hosted by AWS at the time). I…

They might even make more money. I'm guessing Parler doesn't get the same volume discounts that Twitter does.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#390

Post by djsumdog » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 8:00 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #336

djsumdog wrote: post #216

I just want to say, I called this years ago: https://battlepenguin.com/politics/the-new-era-of-corporate-... They came for Alex Jones and I said nothing Because I didn't believe in gay frogs[1] They came for Daily Stormer and I said nothing Because I knew nothing about Daily Stormer and believed everything the media I said about them because their site was gone They came for ever heterodox opinion on Reddit and I sai…

This is like "first they came for the socialists, then they came for the socialists, then they came for the socialists, and then they came for the socialists".

No, I mean those individual things. There may be some intersection between Alex Jones fans, Daily Stormer Fans and Reddit users ... but they're certainly not the same audiences at all.

You can replace them with anyone you want that's heterodox that's been banned honestly.