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Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

asahilinux.org

381–390 of 414 posts

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#381
post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet. They also didn’t allow you to create or install third party apps on the first iPhones too

Er, like the vast majority of phones at the time. It only took them one more year to prepare and release both a dev kit and an App Store that revolutionised the industry. One year.

Vast majority of phones before 2007 supported J2ME apps, it simply wasn't much useful without 24/7 internet everywhere.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's good to hear. The critical issue for me would be running an x86 (incldung AVX) Docker image on M1. Reasonably sure that's not going to happen in the near future.

FWIW I think they've got QEMU baked in to docker desktop to emulate x86. But I've just been using a remote docker daemon.

Thanks - that'a really helpful to know. I'm not sure that QEMU has AVX but will investigate further.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#383

Is anyone else ever saddened when they think about the man hours spent on projects like this (reversing software or hardware to accomplish what should be a simple goal) when all it would take is the teensiest bit of cooperation to not waste all those hours? I use waste in the sense of like trying to assemble something complicated with the instructions just out of arms reach, not in the sense of doing something pointl…

Yes I agree

Also in a similar idea, I think PostMarketOS, LineageOS, /e/ foundation, etc. are nice for privacy minded people on the short-term, but on the long term if we want things to truly change, we have to take both hardware & software independence like PinePhone & Librem 5 are doing.

If the foundations you build upon are too hostile towards you, on the long run you'll spend all your time & money fighting them instead of achieving you original goal.

However sometimes it becomes near impossible to do your own thing. Google has infected the whole manufacturing world with their own Android HAL & specific drivers and now it's impossible to find any competitive modern SOC running standard Linux decently (with GPU, Linux drivers, etc.). Which is why PinePhone has an old crappy chip and Purism took an automobile chip for their phone. And even that might disappear as IoT/Cars/Planes/etc. are using more&more Android instead of Linux. Even Microsoft is moving to their own chip.

The situation is very sad and extremely anti-competitive, but soon, the only way to run your own platform on some modern hardware might be reverse Eng (if that's even still legal by then)

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't change what Apple does. Gnashing your teeth about that isn't going to help. What we can do is support this Patreon.

Or do not buy the hardware..

If you don't buy the hardware, why do you care if it's supported or not?

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#385
post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Er, like the vast majority of phones at the time. It only took them one more year to prepare and release both a dev kit and an App Store that revolutionised the industry. One year.

Vast majority of phones before 2007 supported J2ME apps, it simply wasn't much useful without 24/7 internet everywhere.

J2ME was an utter nightmare, I know because I worked in telecoms back then. Mobile app development as an utter shitshow in 2007 with no signs of it getting any better.

It just seems weird to complain that the company that made mobile apps mainstream "didn't allow it" earlier. The only reason they delayed a year is because the SDK wasn't publication ready yet. They hadn't even finalised the APIs yet and they were still very buggy at the launch of the first phones. We know that from interviews from former employees, the iPhone OS changed hugely between launch and the second phone a year later. A lot of the internal apps were extensively rewritten. Not a great time to push third party development.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#386
post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of time, money and effort invested to support a platform whos creator is unwilling to provide support. If Linux only ran on hardware which the creator was willing to provide support, Linux would not exist. Linux was created in spite of Intel, Nvidia, AMD, etc etc. Support from the makers only came later. Linux was originally an OS created by people who wanted to do things the OEMs and commercial vendors didn'…

Let's ignore the money pumped by IBM and others. Linux exists because POSIX subsytem on Windows never had much love, had it been OS X like and Linux would have stayed an hobby OS.

Seems unlikely.

The success of Linux had a lot more to do with performance, resource requirements, and security than POSIX compliance. You could get a lot of the essential pieces running on Windows, it just required spending twice as much on hardware to do it.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they are to blame. Qualcomm is one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) manufacturer of ARM chips, yet they still simply use reference designs. Besides, for the next flagship (Snapdragon 888) they switched to Samsung 5nm (inferior to TSMC 5nm) and they're not even using the ARM-recommended 8MB L3 cache, but staying with 4MB. It seems benchmarks for tha SoC aren't bad, but it really shows that they aren't reall…

But isn't ARM to be blamed if the standard designs (which apparently almost everyone is using) are inferior?

Yes and no. The problem is those standard designs have to please a very wide spectrum of customers, so in a lot of the tradeoffs in chip design (like area vs performance) they tend to lean more towards keeping area small. The Cortex X1 is supposed to change that, though, but it's very new.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#388
post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's ignore the money pumped by IBM and others. Linux exists because POSIX subsytem on Windows never had much love, had it been OS X like and Linux would have stayed an hobby OS.

Seems unlikely. The success of Linux had a lot more to do with performance, resource requirements, and security than POSIX compliance. You could get a lot of the essential pieces running on Windows, it just required spending twice as much on hardware to do it.

Quite unlikely.

Linux in 1994 didn't had any of that, just a toy OS trying to be UNIX.

Had Windows NT kept its POSIX compatibility story in a proper way, hardly anyone would bother to contribute.

Just like GCC only got serious contributions after Sun started the trend to sell UNIX SDKs and no longer have the development tools as part of a base UNIX installation.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is the reason. It is ingrained in Apple's ethos to prevent users from tinkering with their "perfect" devices, it was a core belief instilled by Jobs from the earliest days of the organization. Certainly, that could change given that he's no longer around, but change in a large organization often takes a long time or some external force. Since it's the most profitable company in the world, I don't e…

The original Apple Computer schematics were distributed by the company.

Don't forget that Apple reversed course when Jobs realized that Apple was losing control with unfavorable OS licensing deals circa 1997 [1]. It's clear that since then, exclusivity and absolute control has been their mantra.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_clone#Jobs_ends_the_...

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#390
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were, and then there was NuBus, Apple's own floppy format, OS used a mix of Object Pascal and Assembly, Quickdraw, Quickdraw3D, NuBus, NetTalk,...

I don’t think those are good examples. The. ‘80s were an era of rapid evolution, in which about everybody had its own low-level stuff. NuBus, being a standard predating it’s use in the Mac ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuBus ) technically was more open than the ISA bus on the PC ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industry_Standard_Architecture : “The ISA term was coined as a retronym by competing PC-clone manufacturer…

Had Copland been a success, and UNIX like stacks would never have been a consideration at Apple's HQ, specially after A/UX failure.

Only thanks to the eminent insolvency, and reverse acquisition from NeXT did anything UNIX like had a say in Apple's business strategy.

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