New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night • Hacker News Board

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#381

Post by giantg2 » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 2:09 PM UTC

mysterydip wrote: post #359

Spare_account wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was prosecuted and fined for speeding in the UK on the basis of two Police officers' testimony that they observed their own speedometer while following me. A UK Police officer can assert that he saw a thing recorded on a calibrated device and it will stick in court. I would imagine that a Police officer could testify that he measured the speed using the calibrated device and continued to observe the same vehicle un…

This happened to my friend in the US. He presented evidence for why it was impossible for the officer to actually measure his speed from where the officer was and where they said he was at the time of measurement (around a corner I believe). The judge simply asked the officer if the device was calibrated, to which he replied 'yes', and my friend was deemed guilty.

Sounds like civil suit time. At least file a complaint against the officer (with IA) and the judge (judicial conduct board).

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#382

Post by chiph » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 2:14 PM UTC

slumdev wrote: post #371

jsinai wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I once saw speed cameras as “un-sporting”. With no attack on the parent, this reminds me of the general driving attitude of South Africa where I am from. A combination of lack of road enforcement and public mistrust in the police have created an environment where the rule of law on the road, designed to protect lives, is treated merely as suggestions or guidelines, often ignored. It’s extremely common to see driver…

It's the same way in the United States. 40 km/h above the limit is the norm on our interstate highways. Perhaps only 20 km/h on smaller streets.

Depends on the state & locality. Places like Virginia where having a radar detector is illegal (and the police have detector-detectors) and going 20mph over (32kph) or faster than 80mph (128kph)[0], gets you charged with reckless driving which is a criminal offense punishable by time in jail. So only the foolhardy speed there.

In next-door North Carolina, going 9mph over (14kph) will only get you insurance points not license points (the state tracks them separately) so many drivers limit themselves to that on the interstates, and sometimes 5mph over (8kph) inside city limits.

[0] Highway SH-130 outside Austin Texas has the fastest speed limit in the US at 85mph (136kph). So what is safe & legal there can get you placed in handcuffs in Virginia.

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#383

Post by Moru » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 2:15 PM UTC

Daho0n wrote: post #380

swarnie_ wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its the "one size fits all" rule which annoys me. My car will comfortably sit at 110mph all day long, if I'm alone on a motorway in the early hours who am i hurting or endangering? It certainly isn't about safety because that same car will stop from 100mph in less distance than the highway code requires for 70.

Until you hit a pothole, a bird or other animal, aquaplane or any other thing that happens to thousands of people just like you every day. I hope you are an organ donor at least. >that same car will stop from 100mph in less distance than the highway code requires for 70. What car is it and with what tires? I'll be happy to look up the facts.

Not that the car has anything to do with the reaction time and eyesight.

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#384

Post by throw0101a » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 2:20 PM UTC

Lio wrote: post #321

There's the old joke: "All those present that object to receiving speeding fines please raise your right foot". People object to speeding fines but receiving them is entirely optional. Personally, I'd rather they clamped down harder on tailgating, poor lane discipline and uninsured drivers than on motorway speed limits.

> Personally, I'd rather they clamped down harder on tailgating, poor lane discipline and uninsured drivers than on motorway speed limits.

There's some interesting facts (?) that I've learned on the topic of traffic safety over time: certainly the speed one has is directly proportional to how bad an accident will be should a crash (née "accident") occur because of the kinetic energy involved.†

However, the speed differential between different vehicles also has a correlation to the accident rate because some folks are going 'too fast' but others are going 'too slow'. I've heard this used as an argument for variable/dynamic speed limits which are changed on factors such as road conditions and visibility.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limit#Variable_speed_lim...

* https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00014...

† Numberphile has an interesting video on the topic: if a blue car is doing 70 (units/hour) and manages to just stop before an obstacle, what would happen to an identical model/mass red car going 100? Even though the red car was going only 30% faster, at the point that the blue car managed to (just) stop, the red car would be going 70.

The energy scrubbed from a starting speed of 70 is 70^2, so 4900; but going at 100 you have 10'000 energy (100^2): so if both cars managed to scrub ~5000 worth of energy, the blue car stopped, but the red car still at 5000 worth of energy left—i.e., 70 units/hour of speed.‡

* https://kottke.org/18/02/why-speeding-is-so-dangerous

‡ If you had the same blue/red cars going 55 and 100, while the red car would been going 'only' twice as fast, it would have had three times the kinetic energy because of 55^2 versus 100^2.

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#385

Post by ape4 » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 2:20 PM UTC

Lio wrote: post #321

There's the old joke: "All those present that object to receiving speeding fines please raise your right foot". People object to speeding fines but receiving them is entirely optional. Personally, I'd rather they clamped down harder on tailgating, poor lane discipline and uninsured drivers than on motorway speed limits.

Tailgating is my biggest hate while driving. The tailgating driver is way over confident that he can stop in time. Its me who will pay the price when he can't. (No I don't drive slowly and do drive in the correct lane when there is a choice.) I hope AVs will fix this.

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#386

Post by Daho0n » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 2:21 PM UTC

manquer wrote: post #294

buran77 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many countries the word of a police officer carries more weight by virtue of the authority they represent. It's considered that they are qualified to be entrusted with a lot of responsibility, so they are also inherently more trustworthy. This sounds reasonable especially given how many incidents are witnessed with no hard evidence - like jay walking, littering, disturbing public peace, etc. and probably also a lo…

Their testimony is given more weight not because of virtue of authority but by the familiarity and working relationships they enjoy in judicial system. Same reason they get lesser punishment, a familiar colleague or someone from the organization you work daily with, or any persona you identify with better ( same school, ethnic/ racial background etc) will likely be treated more favourably .

>Their testimony is given more weight not because of virtue of authority but by the familiarity and working relationships they enjoy in judicial system.

In the civilized parts of the world this is part of the law - not some "hey I know a judge therefor I am above the law" BS. If you are in a country that is as corrupt as you say it is at least mention which it is.

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#387

Post by jl6 » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 2:22 PM UTC

b112 wrote: post #217

jl6 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, you’re totally wrong. The spirit of the law is not just to save third party lives. When you cause an accident, you drain society’s emergency response resources (and increase the premiums of those in your insurance pool). 35mph vs 30mph is a terrible example - this is the scenario where pedestrians and cyclists are most likely to be around. 75mph vs 70mph would have been a better example. Driving at night is mo…

The "when you do $x, you drain society's emergency resources" is, IMO, an absurd argument. If this is true, then you need to point the finger at so many things. Rock-climbing. Mountain biking. And it progresses, to "anything even remotely risky", where "risky is now the absolute lowest common denominator". And of course, so many sports? Banned. This sort of "walking on eggshells" view of life is quite disturbing to m…

The key difference is that all of the things you’ve listed are legal. Society allows them because the risk comes with some reward, and we find it tolerable to accept or mitigate that risk.

There are plenty of other activities like speeding where the rewards do not justify the risks, and the government has made laws to prevent that risk being taken. Unlicensed aviation, amateur gas boiler repair, knife-fighting...

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#388

Post by Daho0n » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 2:22 PM UTC

mysterydip wrote: post #359

Spare_account wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was prosecuted and fined for speeding in the UK on the basis of two Police officers' testimony that they observed their own speedometer while following me. A UK Police officer can assert that he saw a thing recorded on a calibrated device and it will stick in court. I would imagine that a Police officer could testify that he measured the speed using the calibrated device and continued to observe the same vehicle un…

This happened to my friend in the US. He presented evidence for why it was impossible for the officer to actually measure his speed from where the officer was and where they said he was at the time of measurement (around a corner I believe). The judge simply asked the officer if the device was calibrated, to which he replied 'yes', and my friend was deemed guilty.

At least say which evidence so this doesn't turn into a reddit thread.

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#389

Post by growse » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 2:22 PM UTC

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #306

iso947 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the U.K. excess speed is the 10th most common cause of accidents, way below “driver didn’t look properly”, which was 9 times as common. As far as deaths go, the most common contributory causes are loss of control and failure to look properly. Exceeding speed limit was a cause in just 16% of deaths. https://www.regtransfers.co.uk/content/common-causes-for-roa... https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/u…

> In the U.K. excess speed is the 10th most common cause of accidents That may be in part due to camera-based enforcement of the speed limits. Also, road accidents kill quite a lot of people. If it's the 10th most common cause, that could still be enough to kill more people than many other things that we regulate.

> > In the U.K. excess speed is the 10th most common cause of accidents

> That may be in part due to camera-based enforcement of the speed limits.

I can't lay my hands on it now, but there are studies measuring the effect on road casualties before and after camera installations. A lot of the time there's no difference.

Like any punishment/deterrent, people aren't caught often enough for this to work.

If you drive around for long enough in the UK, you'll notice that speeding is actually pretty common. However, it's not the case that everyone speeds everywhere, you're far more likely to catch someone speeding on the motorway or an NSL A road in the clear and dry than in a 20 outside a school. This is because most people are competent enough to regulate their speed appropriately for the environment. Sometimes it's riskier to drive at 20mph past a school than it is to do 90 on the motorway.

Of course there are people who drive dangerously around vulnerable people and in hazardous situations and these are the people who often end up contributing to the statistics. Those are the people enforcement needs to focus on.

> Also, road accidents kill quite a lot of people. If it's the 10th most common cause, that could still be enough to kill more people than many other things that we regulate.

The problem with this is that if we were serious about making the roads safer with the limited resources we have, we wouldn't spend it on catching people speeding. We'd spend it on stuff that actually makes a difference.

Re: New UK police speed gun can read license plates from half a mile away at night

#390

Post by fierarul » Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 2:26 PM UTC

toxicFork wrote: post #293

fierarul wrote: post #286

I think society will soon discover that a certain % of rule breaking is absolutely necessary for it to function. My car has a speed limiter, radio and a computer. Imagine a near future where speed limits are sent via radio then enforced by the car computer. No more infringement!

People would rip the limiter out. Or they would chip/crack it.

Some, but most would not since I assume that would be a felony.