Who Americans spend their time with, by age • Hacker News Board

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#381

Post by tripzilch » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 9:22 AM UTC

Thorentis wrote: post #348

an_opabinia wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone woke up in the morning and cooked for each other I am not passing judgement here. The women woke up in the morning and cooked for everyone else. > It was so nice to have that much support around all the time. People have written about this in books that are now almost four decades old. Everywhere women entered the workforce in a highly compensated way, this arrangement came to an end, the number of childre…

Sounds like you are passing judgement to me. The idea that women are oppressed when they cook for their families, but free and liberated when they work as a wage slave for their boss, is very very sad. You talk about choice, but never consider that men have very little choice either. Either be a wage slave, or by looked down on for "not providing". Spending time with your family and on the home front is one of the mo…

you sound like you'd rather defend the situation where everybody loses than admit women have been getting the short end of the stick for millennia.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#382

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 9:23 AM UTC

heinrichhartman wrote: post #374

an_opabinia wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone woke up in the morning and cooked for each other I am not passing judgement here. The women woke up in the morning and cooked for everyone else. > It was so nice to have that much support around all the time. People have written about this in books that are now almost four decades old. Everywhere women entered the workforce in a highly compensated way, this arrangement came to an end, the number of childre…

> where the women do all this crappy work This is very disrespectful to the many women, and a growing number of men that are making a conscious choice to prioritize raising children and caring for a family over salary work. The problem is forced labor here, i.e. not having a choice to enter the work force. Not that the work is inherently "crappy" - it is not.

[deleted]

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#383

Post by tripzilch » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 9:48 AM UTC

ip26 wrote: post #308

an_opabinia wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone woke up in the morning and cooked for each other I am not passing judgement here. The women woke up in the morning and cooked for everyone else. > It was so nice to have that much support around all the time. People have written about this in books that are now almost four decades old. Everywhere women entered the workforce in a highly compensated way, this arrangement came to an end, the number of childre…

Two working parents, two kids. Well compensated, both. My god do we envy friends who have family nearby. We both prefer to work, but it's still incredibly hard. As a culture we have to figure out a better way that allows everyone independence & freedom to either work or stay-at-home parent, while providing a support network.

It sounds to me that we need to, as a culture, understand the tremendous responsibility and privilege of putting a new human being on this overpopulated world to be a good place into the future, remove this entitlement, and make it the most honourable respectable choice to refrain when you can't make it work.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#384

Post by newsgourmet » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 9:55 AM UTC

an_opabinia wrote: post #293

frakt0x90 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I experienced this first hand when I visited my wife's family in Vietnam. All 10 or so of them live in homes side by side on the outskirts of Saigon. Everyone woke up in the morning and cooked for each other. Every day was like a little party. It was so nice to have that much support around all the time. I have never experienced anything like that in the US. Of course having family literally at your doorstep has its…

> Everyone woke up in the morning and cooked for each other I am not passing judgement here. The women woke up in the morning and cooked for everyone else. > It was so nice to have that much support around all the time. People have written about this in books that are now almost four decades old. Everywhere women entered the workforce in a highly compensated way, this arrangement came to an end, the number of childre…

"where the women do all this crappy work."

Cooking is not "crappy work". Risking your life in coal mines, fixing broken pipes of shit, garbage disposal, being shot to death in useless wars, those things are crappy work (although apparently many miners like their jobs).

You can perhaps argue about having a choice, but even that works both ways. Men rarely have the choice to stay at home to do the crappy work, rather than risk their lives in the outside world. But that is for another discussion. I just wanted to point out your obvious misguided bias about cooking here.

It doesn't seem impossible to stay living close together and still give people more options. Most freedoms were won by the invention of the washing machine and other modern appliances, making household chores less time consuming.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#385

Post by tripzilch » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 9:55 AM UTC

crgwbr wrote: post #303

an_opabinia wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone woke up in the morning and cooked for each other I am not passing judgement here. The women woke up in the morning and cooked for everyone else. > It was so nice to have that much support around all the time. People have written about this in books that are now almost four decades old. Everywhere women entered the workforce in a highly compensated way, this arrangement came to an end, the number of childre…

It’s only crappy work if you choose to view it that way. I am a man and I have a full time career that I enjoy a lot. But despite that I still find cooking for my family to be far more rewarding than almost any aspect of my job.

> I am a man

> I have a full time career

> despite that I still find cooking for my family

that's nice for you.

we were talking about people without that choice though.

so you are a man. you have a full time career. period.

this is the happy multi generational family living that was described.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#386

Post by tripzilch » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 9:57 AM UTC

irrational wrote: post #315

an_opabinia wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone woke up in the morning and cooked for each other I am not passing judgement here. The women woke up in the morning and cooked for everyone else. > It was so nice to have that much support around all the time. People have written about this in books that are now almost four decades old. Everywhere women entered the workforce in a highly compensated way, this arrangement came to an end, the number of childre…

Is cooking crappy work? I’m a man, but I would love to spend a lot more time cooking. I do all the cooking on weekends and holidays/vacations because it is so much fun. I love it when I have my six week sabbaticals since I can cook everyday.

> I’m a man

> I would love to spend a lot more time cooking

> I do all the cooking on weekends and holidays/vacations because it is so much fun. I love it when I have my six week sabbaticals since I can cook everyday.

This is exactly the kind of choice that we were talking about which does NOT exist in the "happy multi generational example" that we were talking about.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#387

Post by tripzilch » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 9:59 AM UTC

emptysongglass wrote: post #304

an_opabinia wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone woke up in the morning and cooked for each other I am not passing judgement here. The women woke up in the morning and cooked for everyone else. > It was so nice to have that much support around all the time. People have written about this in books that are now almost four decades old. Everywhere women entered the workforce in a highly compensated way, this arrangement came to an end, the number of childre…

You do realize that capitalism co-opts everything and that women entering the workforce led to two people now earning what a single person used to? What's more, I'm not really sure the women cooking in those villages hate it as much as you put on them. That's not to say we don't all deserve self-determination but the story we were sold, of ultimate freedom for everyone, is just a new wage-slavery for everyone. Lest y…

> You do realize that capitalism co-opts everything and that women entering the workforce led to two people now earning what a single person used to?

... in the US maybe.

Other places are arguably way more progressive in their equality between men and women, and do not have this problem either.

(the lesson from this should be that the USA has multiple problems, not all of which stem from lack of equality, one of which is their cultural attitude wrt capitalism, in particular being nearly blind to its obvious shortcomings)

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#388

Post by newsgourmet » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 10:00 AM UTC

tripzilch wrote: post #381

Thorentis wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you are passing judgement to me. The idea that women are oppressed when they cook for their families, but free and liberated when they work as a wage slave for their boss, is very very sad. You talk about choice, but never consider that men have very little choice either. Either be a wage slave, or by looked down on for "not providing". Spending time with your family and on the home front is one of the mo…

you sound like you'd rather defend the situation where everybody loses than admit women have been getting the short end of the stick for millennia.

They haven't gotten the short end of the stick. They have higher life expectancy, and get to spend more time with their children. The reason for that is that they have the better bargaining position when it comes to the division of labor, because they have the wombs. Basically men have to offer to provide for them in exchange for women bearing their children. Some other aspects of physiognomy, too, like body strength - basically nature decided some of the division of labor for us long before humans gave it a conscious thought. Like it would have made little sense to send the women out to defend their village against neighboring tribes, while the men stayed at home to nurse the children.

The one place where they historically had the shorter end of the stick is the high risk of dying in childbirth. Things have improved much with regard to that, though.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#389

Post by tripzilch » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 10:11 AM UTC

romanoderoma wrote: post #323

an_opabinia wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone woke up in the morning and cooked for each other I am not passing judgement here. The women woke up in the morning and cooked for everyone else. > It was so nice to have that much support around all the time. People have written about this in books that are now almost four decades old. Everywhere women entered the workforce in a highly compensated way, this arrangement came to an end, the number of childre…

Coming from a family where I am the first generation who could afford going to college, I disagree. OP was talking about Vietnam, my experience is in rural Italy and matches the idea of people helping each other, not of the exploitation of the women. And not in an idealised way either, I could make countless examples that I experienced first hand, growing up with 18 cousins and spending together every easter, Christm…

> I feel lucky to have a family where no one is left behind or alone.

Or, to reitate once more, a family that accepts you for who you are.

I'm glad for you that it's been so happy and all, but really get it into your head, this situation is not, CANNOT, be for everyone.

You're excluding people without a family and/or who chose not to breed.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#390

Post by brippalcharrid » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 10:12 AM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #241

polka_haunts_us wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then heaven forbid if you have different political views from them, especially in 2020. My mom treats me very weirdly, not because I actually voted for Trump, but because I don't spend my days ranting about how he's Satan incarnate like she does. My sister aligns politically with my mom and she moved to MONGOLIA to get away from her. I'm glad for people who truly like their families, but not all of us won that pa…

It is both fascinating and sad to watch. My family has split along political lines, with half despising Trump and half worshipping him. Each side hates the other sufficiently that we just avoid talking anymore, so it's like having two distinct families. I don't know the solution other than everyone agreeing not to talk politics, ever. And even better, actually deciding that politics is pretty insignificant and only s…

Politics has the potential to impact every single area of your life. Your assets, your livelihood, even your life can potentially be taken away at the stroke of the legislator's pen, and this will be enforced by an apparatus that has been funded by your taxes, paid upon pain of imprisonment. We have been living through a period of relative political stability under governments that have tended to respect people's inalienable rights.