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Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

npr.org

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Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#381

Post by mcguire »

claudeganon wrote: post #274
arcticfox wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I do actually believe in their editorial independence. Here's an NPR opinion piece talking openly about the subject https://www.npr.org/sections/publiceditor/2012/03/16/1487788... Some excerpts that I liked (keep in mind, these are out of context, which is largely focused on why we should keep a very close eye out): > Companies are most interested in getting their name before NPR's audience. They are, in other w…

I mean this with all due respect, but highlighting NPR's own defense of their editorial practices is hardly convincing. NPR routinely runs editorial pieces that were pitched to them by corporate sponsors or their fronts like think tanks. They likewise have have discussion panels featuring these groups' talking heads. Listen to a few episodes of Marketplace if you want the most obvious corporate propaganda imaginable.…

"Listen to a few episodes of Marketplace if you want the most obvious corporate propaganda imaginable."

You mean NPR's business news show? That's what business news is, right?

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#382

Post by [deleted] »

djsumdog wrote: post #181
_wldu wrote: post #145

In 1920 Appalachia, coal companies owned all the land, the homes and stores. They also paid workers with their own special money (that was useless everywhere else). The security companies they hired where armed and violent towards miners and their families. https://explorepartsunknown.com/west-virginia/coal-minings-d... Today, people can tour these old towns and learn the history of how the coal companies trapped and…

This is where the Tennessee Ernie Ford song comes from, "Sixteen tons and what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt. St. Peter don't call me cause I can't go, I owe my soul to the company store." There was an episode of South Park last season where they played this song as a backdrop to Amazon workers in a warehouse.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#383

Post by cutemonster »

strathmeyer wrote: post #378
_wldu wrote: post #145

In 1920 Appalachia, coal companies owned all the land, the homes and stores. They also paid workers with their own special money (that was useless everywhere else). The security companies they hired where armed and violent towards miners and their families. https://explorepartsunknown.com/west-virginia/coal-minings-d... Today, people can tour these old towns and learn the history of how the coal companies trapped and…

Do people think Bezos is setting up company stores? What is the point of these posts except to excuse bad behavior?

It's not about excusing bad behavior.

Here's for you: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25291778 (another reply here that explains)

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#384

Post by na85 »

mrtksn wrote: post #357
mcguire wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're simply going to accept the company's employment offer, why do you need the external organization?

You aren’t simply going to accept any offer, you are going to negotiate a fair one thanks to the intelligence you obtain from not-union.

Without leverage that comes from collective bargaining, how does the intelligence change your negotiating position?

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#385

Post by wyre »

travisoneill1 wrote: post #358
ardy42 wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To the advantage of union organisers, mass communication and organisation is a lot easier today. But that's a double-edged sword. It's also an advantage to employers and businesses . And recent history has shown they have the advantage: they been successful at thwarting union formation (see Wal-Mart, the movie American Factory, etc.) and even labor laws (e.g. Prop 22).

Well if you thwart union formation and legislation by using communication to persuade people that you're right and to vote for your side, that's called democracy.

That’s called propaganda, not democracy.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#386

Post by dkersten »

JackFr wrote: post #347
sailingparrot wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People that cannot find a better alternative in their current personal situation. Sure they are not "forced" in a precise linguistic sense. But when it's this or nothing there is really just an illusion of choice.

Why is it Amazon’s problem that they have no alternative? If Amazon went away, would their situation be better or worse? I believe that as a society we must ensure that people have enough money to live, but why should the employers on the bottom of the skills spectrum be forced to bear the brunt of it? Every employer should be required by law to provide a safe workplace free of discrimination and harassment. But hiri…

Because Amazon are use their disproportionate position of power to abuse these employees. It is far from an even playing field. This very article we're commenting on shows that Amazon are trying hard to keep it from becoming fair and equal. I find your lack of compassion for underprivileged employees astounding.

> Every employer should be required by law to provide a safe workplace free of discrimination and harassment.

And who is going to sue when they are underpaid and have no other job options available? Litigation is time consuming and expensive and rent won't wait.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#388

Post by claudeganon »

mcguire wrote: post #381
claudeganon wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean this with all due respect, but highlighting NPR's own defense of their editorial practices is hardly convincing. NPR routinely runs editorial pieces that were pitched to them by corporate sponsors or their fronts like think tanks. They likewise have have discussion panels featuring these groups' talking heads. Listen to a few episodes of Marketplace if you want the most obvious corporate propaganda imaginable.…

" Listen to a few episodes of Marketplace if you want the most obvious corporate propaganda imaginable. " You mean NPR's business news show? That's what business news is, right?

If you read something like the Financial Times, it’s actually far less propagandistic than most “business news.” It mostly just reports the raw, unfiltered reality of Capitalist exchange. There are actually quite a few Marxists who like the paper for this reason.

When contrasted with something like Marketplace, which ceaselessly and glibly spins the darker realities of our economy to somehow be “upbeat” or “positive,” the difference becomes more obvious. And this is an editorial and ideological choice made by NPR, pursuing this framing.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#389

Post by timoth3y »

_wldu wrote: post #145

In 1920 Appalachia, coal companies owned all the land, the homes and stores. They also paid workers with their own special money (that was useless everywhere else). The security companies they hired where armed and violent towards miners and their families. https://explorepartsunknown.com/west-virginia/coal-minings-d... Today, people can tour these old towns and learn the history of how the coal companies trapped and…

This culminated in the Battle of Blair Mountain were mine owners employed private security and the US military to put down 10,000+ striking miners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain

It's an incredible story of capitalism gone mad. Areal bombardment and poison gas were used against the miners and it did not end well for them.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#390

Post by LatteLazy »

hypersoar wrote: post #368
LatteLazy wrote: post #335

I'm a brit, can someone give me an overview of the law on US unions? If one forms, are Amazon compelled to work with them like in European nations? If its still just At Will employment, I don't see how a union would make any difference there, Amazon can (will) just fire everyone who joins and replace them tomorrow right?

Interfering with a union or the formation of a union are explicitly illegal. This includes firing someone for trying to organize, at-will employment or no. However, this doesn't keep employers from trying, or from retaliation using pretextual explanations to avoid penalties. It's also common for employers to force employees to watch anti-union propaganda. Much of the overall culture in the US, as well, has turned hos…

Thanks. It doesn't seem like an Amazon union would actually have any teeth so long as amazon can either ignore them or fire/de-schedule workers that actually take any action (strike, work to rule, go-slow etc).
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