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Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

latimes.com

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Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#381

Post by nradov »

otterley wrote: post #296
caeril wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is the rationale, why do countries with public health insurance fallback not also have mandatory BMI or tobacco/alcohol limits, given the much much higher fatality rates of cardiovascular disease and cancer versus automobile accidents?

Because we live in an imperfect world and it takes time for public opinion to adapt to change. Also, we do have BAC limits for driving, and public intoxication prohibitions.

Are you claiming that in a perfect world we would have legal limits on BMI, and totally ban alcohol and tobacco?

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#382

Post by RationalThought »

dang wrote: post #362
RationalThought wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm becoming more and more callous about people who don't give a shit if their selfishness kills others. Guess what, that goes two ways. If you can't be bothered to wear a mask and socially distance, and you are fine with people dying because they've committed the sin of having asthma. If you're ok with perfectly healthy young adults having heart issues because they survived covid-19, then I'm ok with YOU suffering w…

We've banned this account for breaking HN's guidelines. Can you please not create accounts to do that with? It will eventually get your main account banned as well. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

The others in the thread were talking about killing people like me, yet they are not banned.

That's horrible. Truly.

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#383

Post by gnusty_gnurc »

wins32767 wrote: post #379
gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not like the AIDS crisis; the medical system was not at risk of collapsing. Neither is it now? Even at the peak in NYC, the Javits center was never filled, nor the hospital ships. Likewise in the UK the nightingale hospitals were never used. Should we be wary at all of our propensity for stigmatizing people with disease(especially a viral one)? Should we berate anyone who gets HIV when they could have worn…

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/11/third-sur... > The entire state of Iowa is now out of staffed beds, Eli Perencevich, an infectious-disease doctor at the University of Iowa, told me. Worse is coming. Iowa is accumulating more than 3,600 confirmed cases every day; relative to its population, that’s more than twice the rate Arizona experienced during its summer peak, “when their system was near collap…

> Most of the US is likely to have their medical systems collapse this winter.

Let's put a remind-me on this one.

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#384

Post by greggman3 »

m0llusk wrote: post #248
greggman3 wrote: post #155

First off let me make it clear (1) I've mostly stayed entirely isolate since March. (2) I plan to stay isolated. So don't shoot the messenger please. Anyway, I live in Tokyo. Tokyo Metro area has basically all of California (SF, SD, etc..) squeezed into an area the size of Los Angeles. 34 million people. Tokyo has been mostly unlocked since June. Theaters and other venues are open (every other seat), clubs are open (…

The Japanese effort to contain the virus correctly guessed that since the virus spreads quickly the best approach is to identify and contain clusters. This has made it possible to target their testing and tracking in a way that is highly effective. The not wearing shoes inside really needs to be called out as bunk on two levels. First of all, coronavirus is extremely weak and does not live at all outside of droplets.…

that doesn't match my experience at all. I've been in few houses/apartments in Japan with disgusting floors. I've been in plenty in the USA. You can see cleaning floors in Japan is part of the culture as it feature heavily in anime about real like since everyone shares in it as a well known cultural activity.

Carpet is also unusual in Japan. Tatami are not uncommon but they are easy to clean where as carpet is not.

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#385

Post by greggman3 »

GuB-42 wrote: post #279
greggman3 wrote: post #155

First off let me make it clear (1) I've mostly stayed entirely isolate since March. (2) I plan to stay isolated. So don't shoot the messenger please. Anyway, I live in Tokyo. Tokyo Metro area has basically all of California (SF, SD, etc..) squeezed into an area the size of Los Angeles. 34 million people. Tokyo has been mostly unlocked since June. Theaters and other venues are open (every other seat), clubs are open (…

Knowing what I know about Japan, I expect both cases and deaths to be underreported. Other factors I can think of is that the Japanese are particularly obedient. Tell them to wear a mask and they wear a mask, they don't organize protests instead. They also take hygiene seriously in their day to day life. Another thing is that despite the population density, the Japanese naturally keep their distances. Not much handsh…

why would you expect cases and deaths to be under reported and how would they hide people needing hospitalization?

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#386

Post by dragonwriter »

gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #377
wins32767 wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tragedy does befall humanity from time to time, but you're arguing for comforting those who make selfish choices that make things worse for everyone. This is not like the AIDS crisis; the medical system was not at risk of collapsing. What of empathy for those who have and will needlessly die alone in tents and hospital hallways and their grieving families who don't get to say goodbye? What of empathy for the medical…

> This is not like the AIDS crisis; the medical system was not at risk of collapsing. Neither is it now? Even at the peak in NYC, the Javits center was never filled, nor the hospital ships. Likewise in the UK the nightingale hospitals were never used. Should we be wary at all of our propensity for stigmatizing people with disease(especially a viral one)? Should we berate anyone who gets HIV when they could have worn…

> > This is not like the AIDS crisis; the medical system was not at risk of collapsing.

> Neither is it now?

https://www.grandforksherald.com/newsmd/coronavirus/6753876-...

https://dcist.com/story/20/11/13/dc-hospitals-covid19-metric...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/coronavirus-midwest/...

https://www.alaskapublic.org/2020/11/13/across-alaska-as-the...

https://www.rgj.com/story/news/2020/11/13/covid-updates-neva...

https://www.press-citizen.com/story/news/2020/11/13/coronavi...

https://www.nbcrightnow.com/news/oregon-gov-kate-brown-annou...

https://m.startribune.com/twin-cities-icu-space-at-red-alert...

> Even at the peak in NYC, the Javits center was never filled, nor the hospital ships

Yeah, whatever, that was months ago, and, leaving aside the debates about how meaningful that observation was at the time (which was argued quite a bit here on HN), that's not, and not relevant to, the current situation or forward risks. Right now medical systems in a lot of the country are exceeding capacity and turning away patients who would normally be hospitalized or treated due to the impact COVID-19 is happening.

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#387

Post by dragonwriter »

wins32767 wrote: post #379
gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not like the AIDS crisis; the medical system was not at risk of collapsing. Neither is it now? Even at the peak in NYC, the Javits center was never filled, nor the hospital ships. Likewise in the UK the nightingale hospitals were never used. Should we be wary at all of our propensity for stigmatizing people with disease(especially a viral one)? Should we berate anyone who gets HIV when they could have worn…

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/11/third-sur... > The entire state of Iowa is now out of staffed beds, Eli Perencevich, an infectious-disease doctor at the University of Iowa, told me. Worse is coming. Iowa is accumulating more than 3,600 confirmed cases every day; relative to its population, that’s more than twice the rate Arizona experienced during its summer peak, “when their system was near collap…

> Most of the US is likely to have their medical systems collapse this winter.

“Collapse” is too terse and paints a potentially misleading picture of the problem; “be overwhelmed and forced to ration care on bases other than medical need, such as expected future quantity and quality of life and chance of recovery” and “face significantly reduced total capacity because of COVID-19 impacts on staff” would be more precise.

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#388

Post by timr »

3JPLW wrote: post #348
timr wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's public health risk mitigation. We do it all the time." Not responsive to the argument. You might hurt me in any other year , too. We don't tell people to avoid their families at thanksgiving, stop going into the office, etc. "all the time". It's unique. This year. The flu is about as dangerous to me as SARS-CoV2, for example. How many years of your life, so far, have you avoided seeing your family at holidays i…

It's not just about protecting you, though. It's also about protecting our limited healthcare resources. Every year I get the flu shot to protect me, you, and our shared healthcare.

It's the same argument, and shifting the objective to "healthcare resources" doesn't make it any more responsive than before.

I (like many people) am at ~zero risk of serious disease, so we're back to the same transitive logic: apparently my catching a virus is morally equivalent to overloading the healthcare system, because I might give it to someone who is at risk. Well, likewise: you risk putting someone else in the hospital by catching the flu. Has it stopped you from living before?

And of course, there is a matter of degree: getting a seasonal shot is one thing; demanding that people avoid seeing their families is entirely another.

Finally, consider that every young, healthy person who gets this virus is afterward immune, and contributes to overall population immunity. Therefore, getting the virus and recovering from it is a positive outcome for society. This is offset by some small risk of transmission, of course, but that's a manageable risk. After all, masks and social distancing work, right?

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#389

Post by gnusty_gnurc »

dragonwriter wrote: post #386
gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not like the AIDS crisis; the medical system was not at risk of collapsing. Neither is it now? Even at the peak in NYC, the Javits center was never filled, nor the hospital ships. Likewise in the UK the nightingale hospitals were never used. Should we be wary at all of our propensity for stigmatizing people with disease(especially a viral one)? Should we berate anyone who gets HIV when they could have worn…

> > This is not like the AIDS crisis; the medical system was not at risk of collapsing. > Neither is it now? https://www.grandforksherald.com/newsmd/coronavirus/6753876-... https://dcist.com/story/20/11/13/dc-hospitals-covid19-metric... https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/coronavirus-midwest/... https://www.alaskapublic.org/2020/11/13/across-alaska-as-the... https://www.rgj.com/story/news/2020/11/13/covid-updates…

I'm going to guess this plays out like every place around the world so far.

It's extremely tough for a while as a population experiences their wave and then the virus essentially becomes endemic. But every place so far around the world has gotten through their wave.

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#390

Post by rwiggum »

flubert wrote: post #334

Is anyone in the U.S. using thermal cameras to spot individuals with a fever? I live in a smaller city, not really close to a big metropolitan area, but I haven't seen a thermal camera in use yet. I see they are available on Amazon, so it doesn't seem like it is an issue of availability. Are these being used by businesses in other areas of the U.S.? Seems like it would be a no-brainer to use these to non-invasivly sc…

It doesn't work. Not everyone has symptoms.
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