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Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

helsinkibusinesshub.fi

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Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#381

Post by Kiro »

szatkus wrote: post #369
cbmuser wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t buy that. Japanese is completely different, too, but I learned most of it while in Japan where I was forced to speak it. Finish kids don’t need ten years to learn the language either, do they?

If anything Finnish is much easier than Japanese for Europeans.

Only if you're from Estonia or Hungary. Finnish is so different from all the other European languages that it's like starting from zero. The letter system aside I've found Japanese much easier to learn and I'm half-Finnish (Swedish being my native language).

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#382

Post by dharma1 »

eru wrote: post #141
socialdemocrat wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not like taxes disappear into a black hole never to be seen. Most of that money comes back to you in the form of services Americans would have to pay for anyway. What matters is what the taxes give you. A lot of American taxes don’t give people much of anything. Maintaining the worlds largest prison population is expensive but what exactly does that give the Average American? Worlds largest military also sucks…

You can have lower taxes (than in America) and excellent public services in Singapore. Eat your cake and have it, too. Very startup friendly as well and excellent food. The tropical weather takes a bit of getting used to, though. I much prefer gloomy European skies.

I think Singapore is one of my other favourite cities in addition to Helsinki!

In many ways it's very different though - while the taxes are lower, its generally much more expensive, especially if you have kids. Singapore is a very dense, packed, hot city - you get a bit of island fever and are not so close to nature. Helsinki is literally the opposite. Singapore and Helsinki are both very, very safe, but I find Singapore has more extreme ends of wealth distribution (very badly paid migrant workers).

Both are super functional though, with good universities, and both great options for running a company/working in tech. I would happily live in either city.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#383

Post by refurb »

Cocktail wrote: post #346
mapgrep wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ww2 in Europe was largely won by the USSR. Britain and the US opened a western front quite belatedly after years of begging by the USSR, after the Soviets sacrificed 15+ million lives to turn the tide, and after a lot of wasted time focusing on minor gains in North Africa (at Churchill’s insistence). Combined US and UK military’s deaths were less than a tenth those for USSR. We love to pat ourselves on the back with…

>Finland incidentally was a key ally for Hitler in his attack on the USSR. Key ally how? Beyond diverting troops from the southern front to the finnish theater, how did finland contribute to the german war effort? You also seem to forget that then leader marshall mannerheim refused to advance on key cities in the north, such as st. petersburg and petroskoi even though hitler was quite insistent.

Finland was basically blocking the Northern approach during the Siege of Leningrad which lasted 2.5 years and killed almost a million Russians.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#384

Post by kebman »

mapgrep wrote: post #221
timsally wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I was an American, I wouldn't want to be footing the bill for Global Security either. There is a deep and nuanced conversation to be had here, though I will say fourstar already made one important point very succinctly. [1] I will point out that it has been the position of the American people since WWII that we are happy to foot the bill for global security. So while you might not feel that way, Americans feel d…

Ww2 in Europe was largely won by the USSR. Britain and the US opened a western front quite belatedly after years of begging by the USSR, after the Soviets sacrificed 15+ million lives to turn the tide, and after a lot of wasted time focusing on minor gains in North Africa (at Churchill’s insistence). Combined US and UK military’s deaths were less than a tenth those for USSR. We love to pat ourselves on the back with…

> Ww2 in Europe was largely won by the USSR.

fourstar isn't denying that. Yet the sacrifice of the USSR did not entitle them to hegemony over the free world. Instead it merely saved them and us.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#386

Post by buzer »

deanclatworthy wrote: post #243
cactus2093 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you’re in tech, what range of salary have you seen for software engineers? I know London, Paris, a lot of expensive European cities pay a small fraction of what the Bay Area does so a lot of engineers would have to compromise quite a bit on disposable income and lifestyle.

I can only speak for those in the web tech industry, but salaries go from 4-6k euros. Take-home pay would be in the region of 2.5-4.5k most likely. I've seen a lot of whining about the high taxes here, but honestly this is not a European way of thinking. You are safe here. You have a safety net if things don't go right in your work or health. Taxes are also super simple. You tell the tax office your predicted income,…

> salaries go from 4-6k euros. Take-home pay would be in the region of 2.5-4.5k most likely

With 6k salary, you would likely be taking home at most 4k. 6k translates to about 75000 yearly (lomaraha, i.e. holiday bonus, is about 50% of single month's pay). With standard deductions, your tax rate would be around 29% (that's with 19% municipal tax, it varies a bit depending where you live) & you need to add 8.40% to that for retirement & unemployment (those are required). 6000*(1-0.3745)=3753. Additional 156 if you add 1/12 of lomaraha to that.

Some additional deductions can bring the value up a bit (transport, home office etc.).

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#387

Post by refurb »

mattigames wrote: post #150
Devils-Avocado wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe those services pay for a huge welfare and pension system, and healthcare which is mostly used by the elderly. Very little benefit will be received by a working-age expat.

Yeah, as an expat I would love living next to an elderly dying because he can't afford treatment and is waiting his gofundme to work out, I also would love being 5 times more likely to be a robbery victim[0] thanks to lack of social welfare and social support for people in economic struggles, I would also love to have at least a few more veterans begging for money in the streets, and don't get me started on how much…

elderly dying because he can't afford treatment

The US has universal Medical coverage for the elderly.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#389

Post by timsally »

D_Alex wrote: post #376
Retric wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USSR acted as a serious meat grinder, but a little less than half of German losses where on the eastern front which also included polish forces and the USSR had minimal impact on the Pacific front. The US footed a lot of the material costs needed for Europe and the USSR to stay in the fight via lend lease. To the tune of about $575 billion inflation adjusted, and 22% of that going directly to the USSR. https://en…

>a little less than half of German losses where on the eastern front Where did you get this from? According to Wikipedia, and most other sources, 70-80% of German military casualties were on the Eastern Front. >The US footed a lot of the material costs needed for Europe and the USSR to stay in the fight... More than 80% of the aid to USSR was delivered after the Battle of Stalingrad was won by the USSR, and the outco…

> More than 80% of the aid to USSR was delivered after the Battle of Stalingrad was won by the USSR, and the outcome of the war was pretty much settled.

If you think WWII was settled in February of '43 then that says all we need to know regarding your credibility on this matter. I only mean to be as harsh as is necessary, but it is crazy to be as cavalier as you are being regarding the history of a war where so many lives were lost.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#390

Post by rebuilder »

deanclatworthy wrote: post #257
rebuilder wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as language goes, my advice for learning a new one would be the exact opposite of what you say. Force yourself to use the language all the time, everywhere. Otherwise people will just default to English with you, and you'll have a hard time learning the local language. It'll be very stressful for a few months, but, in my experience, will get you conversing in about half a year.

As someone who has lived in this environment for this long, it doesn't work that way. This is not a language that shares any traits with English. It is hard to get going, and the vocabulary takes a considerable amount of time. You can't switch to Finnish at work, as you simply would not be able to get by, and you can't do it at home as it changes the dynamics of your relationship. This is not an excuse, it's reality.

I'm a native Finnish speaker near Helsinki. The problems you mention are definitely very common for skilled immigrants here - if you don't absolutely need to learn the language, you're not very likely to put yourself through the hardship it entails. Especially if you've already formed social bonds in English.

That's what I was trying to say. If you do want to learn the local language, you have to be willing and able to put up with it being pretty crappy for a few months. My experience has been that it's very hard to integrate a new language into your persona without immersing yourself in it. For most people it's not worth it if they can get by without. Completely understandable.

Now you've got me wondering if I should start thinking about how to teach Finnish to English-speaking professionals :D

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