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Ethereum Is a Dark Forest

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Re: Ethereum Is a Dark Forest

#381

Post by herbst »

cortesoft wrote: post #154
panarky wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> basically unusable for everyday transactions Why is this the acid test? Buying a coffee is a solved problem so why is blockchain tech expected to address this use case? > the endless stream of wallet provider hacks is not convincing anyone that it's secure Does the endless stream of point-of-sale and credit card hacks make you question the security of dollars, euros and yen?

> Does the endless stream of point-of-sale and credit card hacks make you question the security of dollars, euros and yen? No, because my credit card company gives me my money back when there is fraud. Crypto promoters always paint the irreversibility of blockchains as a feature, but it always seems like a risk to me.

Mine doesnt. I can only block my card and sue. No chargebacks possible. For me any crypto is basically just as good, yet even more secure.

Re: Ethereum Is a Dark Forest

#382

Post by taneq »

kbenson wrote: post #298
taneq wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not sure I fully understand, in retrospect, the desire to shave off inconvenient corners for large life events you do so rarely. Same. I’ve seen people but one car over another just because it was available nearby instead of a half hour bus ride away. How many times in your life do you buy a car that an extra half hour is significant?

For this, I think it also matters how people view the car, the class of car, and the cost of waiting or goi g somewhere else. If you're buying a cheap car to get you from point a to point b and you don't care about amenities, what does it matter? Will that civic the next town over make you much happier than the corolla in front of you (or vice versa, or whatever)? Some people just don't care about cars, or at least n…

True, if you really don't care at all then just buy the closest one. But in my (limited) experience with buying cars, once you figure out what will meet your needs, there's usually a significant value difference between the available vehicles and it seems silly to give up several thousand dollars worth of vehicle for the sake of one slightly longer journey.

Re: Ethereum Is a Dark Forest

#383

Post by anaxag0ras »

Joeri wrote: post #367
dimmke wrote: post #145

The environment described in this article is horrifying and definitely sounds worse than our current financial system. That person just lost $12k to fraud and has no recourse at all. I agree with the other comments on here. Blockchain/crypto has always made me uncomfortable. I think it's a mix of the slimy get rich quick aspect of it that draws a lot of people and the cyberpunk/dystopian rhetoric around it. I also th…

I used to think the same way about blockchain, but I then saw a presentation about self-sovereign identity and I think it could be blockchain’s killer app. This is being spearheaded through the UN and the ID2020 alliance.

Is that presentation about self-sovereign identity available online?

Re: Ethereum Is a Dark Forest

#384

Post by xg15 »

seibelj wrote: post #243
xg15 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open Source didn't have as its only unique feature the ability to evade regulation.

I work in the crypto space and the ability to side step regulations that I find ridiculous is a main selling factor. Red tape has stifled not just the financial space but the entire economy. If you want to cut hair you need 2000 hours of training and tens of thousands of dollars paid to scam schools, when YouTube and brochure on how to sweep hair from the floor is perfectly adequate. How is regulation fair again?

> I work in the crypto space and the ability to side step regulations that I find ridiculous is a main selling factor.

Yeah, that's my point.

> Red tape has stifled not just the financial space but the entire economy.

After 2008, that's really your opinion?

> when YouTube and brochure on how to sweep hair from the floor is perfectly adequate. How is regulation fair again?

I guess let's get rid of driver's licenses too, while we're at it? After all, if someone feels their driving skills need improvement, they could always voluntarily apply for lessons or download an app or something.

Re: Ethereum Is a Dark Forest

#385

Post by xg15 »

um_ya wrote: post #230
xg15 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh great, so we'll solve the problem of insurmountable complexity by putting another layer of complexity on top that is supposed to understand the first layer of complexity for us.

That's the entire state of computer science. Over time, strong systems become black box tools for more complex systems.

Until one of the systems break and you're forced to give up the black box illusion.

Re: Ethereum Is a Dark Forest

#386

Post by xg15 »

Sargos wrote: post #259
xg15 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is this the acid test? Buying a coffee is a solved problem so why is blockchain tech expected to address this use case? Wait. If everyday transactions are not the use-case, then (excluding speculation and money laundering), what exactly is it?

There's finance stuff which is mostly large organization to large organization. Everything from escrow, loans invoices, to things like RFPs and supply chain management. Then there's the NFT/Unique items section which is for gaming (God's Unchained/Magic the Gathering where each card is owned digitally and can be traded freely with others or used as collateral for a loan), media (You own a movie but can use it on any…

> The big ones down the line are new methods of organizing and collaborating. DAOs allow for decentralized corporations and governments.

Ok, dumb question: How would such a decentralised government keep itself from being overrun by, say, the Russia troll army, or any other actor with enough resources to take over a majority of it?

Re: Ethereum Is a Dark Forest

#387

Post by xg15 »

Sargos wrote: post #259
xg15 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is this the acid test? Buying a coffee is a solved problem so why is blockchain tech expected to address this use case? Wait. If everyday transactions are not the use-case, then (excluding speculation and money laundering), what exactly is it?

There's finance stuff which is mostly large organization to large organization. Everything from escrow, loans invoices, to things like RFPs and supply chain management. Then there's the NFT/Unique items section which is for gaming (God's Unchained/Magic the Gathering where each card is owned digitally and can be traded freely with others or used as collateral for a loan), media (You own a movie but can use it on any…

> neutral platforms

Most internet platforms used to be "neutral" - or significantly more so than today. The current discussion in society is about the problems that too much neutrality can cause.

However your stance may be on those topics, this very same discussion will extend to decentralised communication networks as well, should they ever go mainstream.

Re: Ethereum Is a Dark Forest

#388

Post by Sargos »

xg15 wrote: post #386
Sargos wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's finance stuff which is mostly large organization to large organization. Everything from escrow, loans invoices, to things like RFPs and supply chain management. Then there's the NFT/Unique items section which is for gaming (God's Unchained/Magic the Gathering where each card is owned digitally and can be traded freely with others or used as collateral for a loan), media (You own a movie but can use it on any…

> The big ones down the line are new methods of organizing and collaborating. DAOs allow for decentralized corporations and governments. Ok, dumb question: How would such a decentralised government keep itself from being overrun by, say, the Russia troll army, or any other actor with enough resources to take over a majority of it?

Identity is a huge topic itself with lots of projects doing fundamental research and experiments but essentially if it's a traditional physical government then it would work like it does today where you would use your government secured ID to vote. Not much would change. If it's a digital government then it would probably be using an identity based on built up history of actions and financial settlements and connections to other highly verified accounts. Ethereum has a project called POAP (Proof of Attendance Protocol) which is a way of identifying that a real person attended a specific event or performed some important action. These POAP badges can't be faked and are already being used for things like being able to vote on certain dev polls if you've attended a Devcon.

Re: Ethereum Is a Dark Forest

#389

Post by xg15 »

Sargos wrote: post #388
xg15 wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The big ones down the line are new methods of organizing and collaborating. DAOs allow for decentralized corporations and governments. Ok, dumb question: How would such a decentralised government keep itself from being overrun by, say, the Russia troll army, or any other actor with enough resources to take over a majority of it?

Identity is a huge topic itself with lots of projects doing fundamental research and experiments but essentially if it's a traditional physical government then it would work like it does today where you would use your government secured ID to vote. Not much would change. If it's a digital government then it would probably be using an identity based on built up history of actions and financial settlements and connecti…

> If it's a digital government then it would probably be using an identity based on built up history of actions and financial settlements and connections to other highly verified accounts.

Not sure if I understand this correctly. You mean, an account will be considered "genuine", if it had a long enough history of activity?

Re: Ethereum Is a Dark Forest

#390

Post by hibbelig »

sneak wrote: post #302
Waterluvian wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted it to be convenient and electronic transfer but my lawyer said I’m simply not allowed to. I had to get cheques from my banks and hand deliver them to the lawyer’s office. I’m not sure I fully understand, in retrospect, the desire to shave off inconvenient corners for large life events you do so rarely. I think there’s real wisdom in some of these things being so slow and old school.

This is an artifact of insecure communications systems and poor operational security. Making people shuffle physical paper around, especially considering things like pandemics and climate change, is a temporary workaround, not a long-term solution.

Given that it had been working this way for hundreds of years, how is it temporary?
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