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Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

neomindlabs.com

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Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#381

Post by pietrovismara »

oblio wrote: post #215
pastacacioepepe wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no such thing as perfect information in the marketplace And why not? Are you saying that a market of free and voluntary exchange where every part has access to equal information cannot exist? An exchange where a part is better informed than the other and thus gains profit, is the exact definition of "taking advantage". Wait, isn't that how all exchanges work in the capitalist's workplace?

> And why not? Are you saying that a market of free and voluntary exchange where every part has access to equal information cannot exist? Outside of very limited circumstances, how could it? Only for the simplest of products can you really grok them as well as the people making them.

But the information is available in that case. Independent experts and other customers can (and do) review products. For the workplace there has been some failed attempt like Glassdoor but you generally don't have access to that information while being hired.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#382

Post by cmrdporcupine »

positr0n wrote: post #356
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted both your comment and parent. 9 years at a FAANG and I'd willingly trade plenty of my money and golden handcuffs for a workplace that was more productive, creative, with better communication, and so on. But when I look I just find shops with distorted work life balance, pointless whiteboard coding interviews, egotistical pseudo-feudal lord bosses with an illusion of hierarchical dominance, and a bunch of 25…

"when I look I just find shops with [...], egotistical pseudo-feudal lord bosses with an illusion of hierarchical dominance, [...]" The rest of the traits you list I can usually figure out, but how can you get at that one from just a couple interviews at a company?

A combination of cynicism and reports from employees who already work there or worked there :-)

Also describes almost every job I had before coming to Google.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#383

Post by echlebek »

mcguire wrote: post #282
whatshisface wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Google is willing to pay $200k over your current employer for you, your employer is paying you $200k under your market rate.

Let's say your value to most employers is $100k---this is the amount of money you make for them balanced against the amount you want in order to work for them. Then the Goog enters the picture and is willing to add another $200k premium to that, in order to prevent you from working for that employer. This isn't sustainable; you're still you and your direct value to Goog is only $100k. The additional amount represents…

Market rates being unstable don't make them stop being market rates.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#384

Post by sushid »

game_the0ry wrote: post #277
tschwimmer wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Investment Banks are a terrible example of low attrition workplaces, as attrition is quite high. It used to be the case (not sure if it still is) that expected attrition was ~100% after the first 2 years as an analyst as you were expected to go to B-school, the buyside or somewhere else.

Less of comparison of attrition, more of a comparison of: * competing for talent by paying very well and wiling to do so * investment in training early on Two things that tech workers do not benefit from as much.

The whole discussion is anchored on retention. If you're not talking about that what is the point of your example?

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#385

Post by neomindryan »

BrentOzar wrote: post #15

Instead of "hit by a bus," I prefer the term "win the lotto." Any member of your team could win a life-changing amount of money in the lottery, inherit it, win a gambling bet, etc. Frame it as a good thing rather than a death or a change of hire - somebody might just flat out retire because they don't financially need your employment anymore.

I love this, thank you

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#386

Post by jefftk »

codegeek wrote: post #267
jefftk wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think they are overpaying? If they offered less the employee would go to a competitor, and the company gets more value from the employee than they do from $200K/y.

True that Google itself sees value in paying 200K and they need to do that to attract the best talent compared to their competitors. But google has so much money that it almost makes it difficult for the little guys who could pay a good salary but not the inflated ones like google. I am not convinced that suddenly "market rate" is decided by FAANgs. No FAANG existed before 2004 (some did but weren't as powerful back…

I think it's a combination of:

a) These companies are much bigger than they were, which increases the impact a programmer can have. This means the amount of money a programmer can bring in for one of these companies is much higher than previously, and so they're willing to pay more.

b) Previously, programmers were capturing a much smaller share of the value they were creating for their employers. Either through explicit collusion to keep employee salaries down (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...) or because the threat of startup founding (which is both easier and more normal relative to 10y ago) has pushed salaries up.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#387

Post by neomindryan »

pavlov wrote: post #17

The author makes it sound like Rails is the recommended way to build software that is maintained by a revolving door of junior developers whom you don't have to motivate or compensate, because you can just hire another cog-in-the-machine when the old ones inevitably wise up to your game. Not sure if that was the intended message.

Thanks for this perspective. I believe it takes developers at all levels to maintain a piece of software. A developer of 10 years experience may not get professional fulfillment out of form validation changes, but a bootcamp grad shouldn't run the SOC2 audit.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#388

Post by sushid »

pavlov wrote: post #17

The author makes it sound like Rails is the recommended way to build software that is maintained by a revolving door of junior developers whom you don't have to motivate or compensate, because you can just hire another cog-in-the-machine when the old ones inevitably wise up to your game. Not sure if that was the intended message.

I'm pretty sure that's the intended message and the thread is simply hijacking the thesis to talk about developer compensation as usual.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#389

Post by neomindryan »

joncrane wrote: post #14

I always call it the "lottery problem" instead of the "bus problem" because it's more positive. Also for some people, getting hired at a FAANG is like winning the lottery so it jives with OP's article.

I love this, thank you

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#390

Post by neomindryan »

madrox wrote: post #262

I don't care how you put it, but the fact is that people leave. I led an engineering team I was quite proud of, and days came that I had to let top engineers go. Everyone has growth arcs, and they had opportunities to seize their dream jobs working on things they'd never get to otherwise. I was proud to have felt like a stepping stone on the way to their dreams, even though it screwed the business temporarily. I lear…

Thank you, this is great feedback.
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