Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever • Hacker News Board

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#381

Post by fsloth » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 8:26 AM UTC

0xy wrote: post #353

emddudley wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of experienced developers in the U.S. you can hire for 100k too, outside the large metropolitan areas.

The US is the recipient of all of the world's top talent. Why would any extremely experienced developer willingly choose to earn 1/6th of the money in the Europe or less unless forced to? Of course, top talent does exist in Europe but there's way less than the US.

Because people like other things than just money? Once you have the safety network of a european state, have upper middle class income, there is very little to gain in quality of life by increase in pay.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

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Post by ununoctium87 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 8:31 AM UTC

mbo wrote: post #166

jay_kyburz wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything I read about the founders makes me think they are great guys, I think they value the same things I do. They are also obviously smart and great business people too because they have very successful business. They also have a habit of acquiring products I like using. I was a user of both source tree and trello when they were acquired. Having said all that, I really hate Jira and Confluence and would not like…

Counterpoint: working on infrastructure teams at Atlassian are significantly more pleasant than the product teams.

Hello to you too, fellow Cloud Foundations team member

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#383

Post by ununoctium87 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 8:32 AM UTC

ramraj07 wrote: post #221

jay_kyburz wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything I read about the founders makes me think they are great guys, I think they value the same things I do. They are also obviously smart and great business people too because they have very successful business. They also have a habit of acquiring products I like using. I was a user of both source tree and trello when they were acquired. Having said all that, I really hate Jira and Confluence and would not like…

Isn't atlassian the most gung ho proponent of doing everything, everything through event streams and Kafka?

Haven’t seen Kafka yet. Source: I work infra eng at Atlassian

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

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Post by john4532452 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 8:35 AM UTC

NoOneNew wrote: post #136

I have a feeling this is going to end up similar to the "open office" fad. Lots of companies are going to go 100% on "forever work from home". Then in a year it's going to be not so much. That being said, I do believe "work from home" will become more of an option and far less frowned upon by employers. Then again, this is a white-collar problem. Blue collar and a few other industries still have to go to work. But wh…

I don't get how WFH is related to not caring(or caring) about blue collar employees. If anything the demand for housing reduces and the rent goes down.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

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Post by Aeolun » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 8:43 AM UTC

webkike wrote: post #259

Aeolun wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uneducated rednecks are a bit better than educated rednecks. At least they have an excuse.

I love educated rednecks.

Maybe I misunderstand what redneck means in this context?

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

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Post by IshKebab » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 8:49 AM UTC

gundmc wrote: post #314

DangitBobby wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How?

Move somewhere cheaper I suspect.

Then your pay will be cut too. Lots of people think that is unfair because you are doing the same work, but those people just don't understand that salaries are market based.

Also you might think "my company doesn't cut salaries", or "I just won't say I've moved". That might work if you stay at the same company for the rest of your life, but if you move jobs there's no way you'd get the same deal.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

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Post by dmitriid » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 8:58 AM UTC

0xy wrote: post #375

naavis wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they want to live in Europe?

My comment never suggested there are none who don't live there by choice. Of course, by choosing Europe, you surrender literally millions of dollars (in compounding retirement investments over decades). I specifically mean EU countries by the way, Switzerland and London are the only exceptions -- and even then the US is better.

> you surrender literally millions of dollars

You don't. You spend those "millions" of dollars on ridiculously expensive medical care, on ridiculously expensive education, on car ownership, on... And in return you get worse infrastructure, worse medical care, worse ecology etc.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

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Post by langitbiru » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 9:02 AM UTC

cheerlessbog wrote: post #264

macNchz wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a big remote work advocate and have worked with some amazing European engineers. That said, having worked as an engineer in the US office of a early stage startup with a European office, the 5-9 hour time difference is a not-insignificant impediment when you’re resource constrained and moving fast. Even with great communication and good management, having little overlap during the day for realtime conversations m…

It’s worked better for me in teams that work on open source. Such projects tend to be intrinsically asynchronous and conducted via email, chat etc which is what you need to make a distributed team work well.

Yes, asynchronous communication is the key. The synchronous communication is conducted sparingly in opensource projects. Say, once per month (video conference).

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

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Post by meheleventyone » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 9:09 AM UTC

hellisothers wrote: post #315

efficax wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there's any real evidence that remote work is any worse (or better) for productivity than in person work.

I actually thought it was a forgone conclusion that remote work is _more_ productive (for IC work) but the problem is ideation and serendipitous interactions leading to novel IP is more likely to happen when people are physically near each other. Hence the aversion at a corp. level to remote work.

Is there any evidence for lower rate of IP generation? The same argument was made for open offices as well and has proven false.

Similar to the studies with brainstorming where people doing it in a group come up with fewer and less diverse ideas than people brainstorming individually and collating the results.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

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Post by zelphirkalt » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 9:10 AM UTC

bargle0 wrote: post #258

I feel like permanent WFH is outsourcing real estate costs to the worker. This isn’t a big deal for some, since one may live alone or already have a home office, but it gets burdensome if there is more than one home worker in a household.

If my employer told me, that I could do the same, work from home, but have to buy my IT stuff and other things myself, I'd gladly do that, up to the point of approximately 1/6 of my wage, perhaps more. The point is, that it would save me so much time, that the cost is easily justified. In Covid-19 times I don't need to wear a mask at home and I don't need to be worried about not wearing one. I can have lunch in peace, without worrying about aerosols hitting my food.