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The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

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Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#381

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

andrewtbham wrote: post #228
blueyes wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does the author of this piece want? The "truth", or even a plausible interpretation of the facts, is expensive to produce. It is even more expensive when you do it every day covering a wide array of topics. If you value facts and good analysis, pay for them. It's that simple. Sure, the New York Times gets a lot of things wrong. So does everyone else, including many commenters on HN. * But a lot of what the New Y…

I will never pay for the nyt... I would much rather give my money to a patreon where someone actually knows something about the topics I am intersted in. Journalists reporting on topics they don't understand doesn't make sense... https://www.patreon.com/hyperchange https://www.patreon.com/EverydayAstronaut furthermore, nyt are mostly shills for their advertisers. That is why nyt trashed tesla because GM and Ford adve…

There's a midsized number of experts in any given field.

There's a lot of people interested in a topic at a given point in time.

The experts will run from a tsunami of individual inquiries. Part of the role of a journalist is the act as a proxy for all that interest so that the experts' opinions can get out there without them facing endless messaging from every member of the public.

Now, one can argue about whether they do that job well or not. But that's a totally different argument than "I'd rather interact directly with someone who is actually an expert".

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#382

Post by hectorr1 »

slg wrote: post #316
GenerocUsername wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more you know about a subject, the more false reporting you will find related to that subject. Remember that next time you read news about something you are not already well versed in.

No one can be an expert on everything. That is true for journalists too. Unless a reporter has a very narrow beat, they are going to be forced to report on topics in which they are not fully knowledgeable. This often results in misunderstandings or downright falsities, but on large they generally get it right. We should certainly hold journalistic organizations and reporters to a high standard of accuracy, but let's…

While this may have been an unfortunate reality in previous eras, today we can get much better information from researchers and practitioners.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#383

Post by KSteffensen »

hootbootscoot wrote: post #48
freddie_mercury wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume that $20 is enough to support multiple newspapers? That's nearly how much the New York Times ($17/month) alone costs and they lost money every year in recent history until 2018 and are only now turning the corner as a business. On the surface I'd assume that actual journalism -- not just clickbait opinion pieces -- is going to cost you way more than $20 a month if you want access to multiple sources…

That actually is a great way to bring up how miserably the Netflix model treats content creators. The $4 billion rich Netflix CEO says that artists should try harder if they don't want to starve (source, this same article we are discussing)

Article quotes the Spotify CEO, not the Netflix CEO.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#384

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

gonehome wrote: post #252
arp242 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's 7 years ago? I don't know anything about that entire story so I can't comment specifically, but the NYT publishes about 150 articles a day, so there are bound to be some stinkers over the years. It's not great, but dismissing an entire publication over it doesn't strike me as fair.

This was recently: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-July-2020-Twitter-spat-bet... Also this: https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/06/22/nyt-is-threatening-my-... Also: https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter I think there are some great New York Times writers (Li Yuan’s articles I always like), but there’s a lot of seriously bad writing and writers. It’s not exclusive to NYT either, Vox makes some great stuff - but…

who is going to do, and who is going to pay for, the actual reporting on which the smart but frequently bloviating sort of writers that you cite rely?

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#385

Post by uoaei »

FranzFerdiNaN wrote: post #49
ferros wrote: post #3

I would be willing to pay an amount for better quality news than what can be found for free, however news outlets always seem to lean one way. I want somebody to just report and not tilt it in one direction.

What is unbiased? If you were a late 18th century french reporter writing a report about the death of king Louis XVI, would you write "King Louis was murdered", "King Louis was executed", "former king Louis executed by means of guillotine for high treason", "citizen Louis Capet beheaded on the order of the National Convention" or something else? All of those descriptions can be considered true and yet none are unbias…

"Unbiased" means "excluding analysis". It means only parroting the verifiable statements and not adding on anything else.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#386

Post by uoaei »

lvs wrote: post #72
ferros wrote: post #3

I would be willing to pay an amount for better quality news than what can be found for free, however news outlets always seem to lean one way. I want somebody to just report and not tilt it in one direction.

This is called "false balance." Reality doesn't have sides.

The point is not to advocate for both sides, but just to tell the part of the story that both sides use to conjure their slants.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#387

Post by Nihilartikel »

Falling3 wrote: post #199
Nihilartikel wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A scientist being wrong is GOOD! The scientific process relies on assimilation of negative results. If a scientist is emotionally attached to a result and ignores a result that they don't like, they are no longer engaged in science. Peer review and replication is the correcting factor for the unfortunate reality that science must be, for the moment carried out by humans. At the very least, when operating properly sci…

I don't disagree with you. The only thing I'm arguing against is the GP's comment that we should blindly put our trust in the groups mentioned. Some of the best parts about science, as you've pointed out, are peer review and replication. There should never be a need to put your faith in an individual scientist and take them at their word. >There is a special place in hell for those who cynically use the fact that sci…

Reading charitably, I don't believe that it's what you meant. But with disturbing frequency, I do see similar words uttered and written with fairly clear cynical intent.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#389

Post by jancsika »

adolph wrote: post #333
GenerocUsername wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more you know about a subject, the more false reporting you will find related to that subject. Remember that next time you read news about something you are not already well versed in.

“Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray's case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the "wet streets…

“Briefly stated, the Mell-Gann Memory effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Melley's case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the "wet streets cause rain" stories. Paper's full of them[1].

In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper somehow has exactly the same quantity and quality of errors about Palestine as the baloney you just read. You turn the page and vastly overestimate what you think you can critique based on your vast knowledge of show business.”

― Crichael Michton

[1] based on evidence ascertained through the Mell-Gann Memory effect

Edit: clarification

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#390

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

throwaway8582 wrote: post #290
jhardy54 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're in for a surprise when you discover Fox News.

I always laugh when I see someone bring up Fox News in this context. You realize your just proving his point, right? I can name dozens or hundreds of major media outlets that that lean left (MSNBC, CNN, NYT, WaPo, HuffPo, BuzzFeed, etc.), but you can only name one or two that lean right.

Most of the "left-leaning" organizations you cite above are not considered particularly left-leaning by the left. A better description of them would be "pro status quo", or if you're feeling punchy "relentlessly pro status quo" with a side of "pro-corporatist" thrown in for seasoning.

Now, Fox News and OAN and Sinclair are not, publically, actually the John Birch Society, so sure, you could say "right wingers don't think they lean right either".

Plot out a chart of US political opinion, and I more or less guarantee you that in most things, you'll find your list of media outlights absolutely "centrist", and the 3 I just named distinctly "to the right" of mainstream US political opinion.

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