I did poorly for SAT general ability test. But was at the top most percentile (I can't remember the exact number here, long time back) in the subject tests (I think I took Math and Physics). I wonder how that happened if both tests predict performance equally well.
MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions
381–390 of 465 posts
Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
And you can find out about all these tricks for free on Khan Academy or for $20 in a SAT prep book.
There are plenty of kids in the US who can't afford to bring lunch to school, let alone pay $20 for a SAT prep book. Many of these kids don't have a computer or Internet access at home for that matter, so Khan Academy isn't much good to them either. When we talk about rich vs poor kids, there's a HUGE gap that many people don't realize.
Anecdote: When I was younger, I used to take a public bus to a local bookstore and work through the SAT practice books (on separate scrap paper of course).
Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions
#383Anybody cheering the exclusion of some test or other, because it was a pain to study for in high school, is simply not noticing the frog-boiling secondary effects going on. Every bit of emphasis taken out of objective results mean more advantage for smooth talking, photogenic, well-connected people. Yes, some misguided parents waste thousands of dollars on SAT courses. But students can also prep using the $20 officia…
While I agree on the money aspect, other achievements provide more points of differentiation for top candidates. MIT likely is deciding amongst students with about perfect scores anyway.
I had a bout of diarrhea during my SAT 2 Math (the harder one, whatever it's called) and still scored 780/800. I was a bit annoyed that one question put me down huge percentiles though, because you could miss like 10 questions and still get 800.
Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions
#384Anybody cheering the exclusion of some test or other, because it was a pain to study for in high school, is simply not noticing the frog-boiling secondary effects going on. Every bit of emphasis taken out of objective results mean more advantage for smooth talking, photogenic, well-connected people. Yes, some misguided parents waste thousands of dollars on SAT courses. But students can also prep using the $20 officia…
Poor people can’t afford that $20 prep book, and they can’t afford the subject tests either.
I worked in high school but that money went to my family to help pay for food/rent. Thankfully I had an amazing high school teacher who was willing to pay for the remainder on my AP tests (the company who administers the test has a reduced fee option). My SAT test was free though, never got to take a practice test or even knew that there was a practice test —- that’s the joy of being a first generation college graduate, I suppose.
I agree about extra curricular activities. That just signals to colleges that your family is wealthy enough that you can afford to participate in terms of both time and money.
Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions
#385Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that "smooth-talker" is typically not sonmeone who is articulate and socially well-adjusted who communicate their values and opinions in an intelligent way. The typical use of the word refers to manipulative people who will smoothly pretend values and opinions they don't have in order to mislead people and take advantage of them. Alternatively it is people who talk about things they know nothing about convinc…
> people who talk about things they know nothing about convincingly enough for those who also know nothing about the topic. Exactly. This is what a room full of smooth talkers looks like: two top journalists agreeing on national TV that 500 million divided by 327 million is greater than 1 million. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/03/06/msnbcs_br...
You’re judging people by some stupid mistake that could have any of a million reasons. Maybe their monitors are small and they couldn’t read it, or they were thinking about whatever was coming up.
Your criticism seems motivated by some prior grudges against these people. For leadership Postillions, I’d prefer someone bad at math over anyone this petty.
Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions
#386I took the SAT from Australia and was blown away by how ridiculously easy it was. Maybe it’d be a better predictor of ability if they made it a bit harder.
What's easy for you is not easy for everyone. It currently is a pretty good predictor of ability in college.
Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions
#387These are the tests that are no longer being considered: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAT_Subject_Tests. They are not "the SAT".
It makes intuitive sense to me that MIT wouldn't find these useful. They test subjects that students study in school. They're tests of knowledge, and have multiple choice questions like "One purpose of the Marshall Plan of 1948 was to..."
As far as I know, everyone's score on these tests correlated extremely well with 1) their school grade in the relevant course 2) the relevant Advanced Placement test.
Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions
#388The SAT subject tests just felt like a joke to me anyways. My high school was a public high school in Singapore, a country generally considered to have great education. With a generally good mastery of the normal high school curriculum, these tests were considered very easy. Pretty much all my friends and I got 800 out of 800 for all the subject tests. And these perfect scores ended up not mattering that much in coll…
It depends heavily on the SAT subject test. Math II, for instance, is heavily curved and anyone with a solid understanding of high school math and their calculator should have no problem getting an 800. But I'm not sure if the same is true for all of the tests in the humanities and social sciences.
Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is this comment upvoted? MIT has not removed the requirement to take SAT tests. > We will continue to require the SAT or the ACT, because our research has shown these tests, in combination with a student’s high school grades and coursework, are predictive of success in our challenging curriculum. This is typical of a knee-jerk reaction without even understanding their policy. Let alone reading the actual post. It…
Probably because many (most?) people don't take or know about the subject tests. I thought I had never heard of them, but after looking at wikipedia, it looks like they were called the SAT II when I was in high school. I remember that existing, but never knew why you would take them and never knew anybody that did. It's not a stretch to imagine people being confused. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAT_Subject_Tests
SAT IIs are pretty obscure, and I don't think there's any benefit to taking them over AP tests, since APs can sometimes be translated into college credits and have much more support in public schools.
One of the points of metrics is to reduce the relevance of how savvy your parents are. But you have to have pretty savvy parents to take the SAT IIs.
Metrics get a lot of heat from people who don't realize what the alternative is, but I know a guy who got into Harvard because his grandparents go to the same synagogue as some admissions people and called in a favor. _That's_ the alternative to metrics.
Re: MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions decisions
#390I'm sure this is for the sake of "diversity" yet this only harms those kids who can't do any extracurricular activities or similar and had to rely on standardized tests to have a chance. I should know, I was one of them.
So this can only backfire (if the goal really is to get more people from different backgrounds in), as these initiatives always do.