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Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it

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Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it

#381

I was publicly told by my immediate supervisor to stop once reading a technical book on the job for a degree my company has paid for. Apparently that was unacceptable behavior. I quit the company after I earned that degree. My experience is that most people quit because of poor management.

I was once publicly told by my immediate supervisor to stop reading a book about XML (back when XML was new) when we started using XML for new web services.

Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it

#382

I’ve always learned on the job and have never asked permission. I guess I’m lucky that I haven’t worked in the type of places where somebody’s looking over my shoulder every minute of the day. Somewhere around an hour a day every day and I’ve been doing it for years and nobody has ever said anything about it. I subscribe to those weekly emails for the programming languages we use at work and I read them when they com…

This is research, it's valid part of anyone's job.

Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it

#383
post #176

I'm currently a frontend engineer. I told my team lead a while back that I'd like to transition to the server side, especially since our server team is woefully understaffed and our frontend team is overstaffed. He told me "Sure but you'll need to learn all that stuff on your own time". So I never did it because I'm interested in doing other things at home.

If there's one thing I've learned between being a new engineer and a senior eng is that you can just take a small slice of time in your work schedule to learn. You don't have to clear this with anyone. You're salaried, take an hour or two a week to learn something new. You're getting paid for your technical judgement, use it to invest in something relevant and deepen your ability to judge. It pays off for both you an…

I've honestly never found myself in a position where I didn't had some spare time whilst at work. Even at my current job, I've transitioned from frontend work to backend work (I had backend experience already in Node), and I've always been able to keep up with our sprint. Other engineers complain they don't have time to improve our code base, or they can't learn anything new because they're always busy, but I think that's just an excuse. It's just a matter of organising yourself and looking for opportunities to learn.

I actively picked up stories I wasn't familiar with, just to learn it. Other engineers pick up stories because they're already familiar with the subject, that's not how you learn new things.

Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it

#384
post #76

I'm currently negotiating with two potential employers, one of them one of the bigs. It would be great if they would pay me to learn at work, but I don't feel like I'm in a position to ask for that — that's an industry=wide problem. So I'm trying to hack the system to get fewer hours: 30-32 per week. That gives me enough time to self-study, handle some of my own training and overdeliver, yet still have a life. I have…

Someone who asks for reduced hours is probably shooting themselves in the foot wrt comp. It suggests you are negotiating against yourself. If you aren’t asking for more money you are leaving money on the table. Just work effectively for 30 hours and nobody is going to know you aren’t working 40. Measurement of productivity in software is very vague.

Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it

#385
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a good idea that I would really like to try, for my own sanity if for nothing else. For me, the issue—imagined or not—would arise in the Friday morning daily stand-up. I’m not sure it would go over well if I said that I intend to spend part of the day doing PRs (this is fine and expected) and the other part learning/researching (likely not). Oh the joys of the JIRA sweatshop. We have JIRA pulled up o…

Yep, that's a way away from ideal. You're unlucky, there are a lot of software teams out there where the developers are pretty much autonomous. That's not to say they do absolutely whatever they want, but micromanagement is usually out of the question. A couple of months ago I spent about half my working hours in a week watching everything that happened at .Net Conf. I didn't ask anyone, I just said I was taking trai…

Any idea what to look for when searching for such a job? I have asked about micromanagement in interviews before but I usually just get bullshit answers.

Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it

#386
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your lead made a mistake there. Someone with understanding of both FE and BE is worth as much as one of each, especially when they have intimate knowledge of your actual code.

>Someone with understanding of both FE and BE is worth as much as one of each... Someone with understanding of both FE and BE is valuable in certain situations. Companies love the idea of a "full stack engineer" because they believe they are getting two for the price of one. But in practice, and accounting for exceptions, that's not necessarily the case. A full-time FE with equal experience will be better at the fron…

I need to disagree with you here, I consider myself full stack, but if you were to ask, FE would be my deep experience. And for me this is perfect, I have no problems with any FE work, and the same goes for BE work. Sure, we have BE engineers with very deep experience, but I've never found myself in a position where I couldn't keep up with them. I acknowledge a lack some knowledge in BE, especially when it comes to deeper CompSci domains, but it has never held me back.

But in general, I think this is just a different mindset, I love being able to be independent, and complete a stories from FE to BE. I used to be in a position where I could only do FE work, and it really scared me. I had no clue where critical data was coming from, if something went wrong, I couldn't debug our APIs, I was in the dark constantly. Now if something goes wrong, I can switch over to our backend, debug, write extra test cases to cover the bug and push code. I also understand what BE engineers are talking about, and when designing a new feature, it's much easier to come up with new APIs.

Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it

#387

I’ve always learned on the job and have never asked permission. I guess I’m lucky that I haven’t worked in the type of places where somebody’s looking over my shoulder every minute of the day. Somewhere around an hour a day every day and I’ve been doing it for years and nobody has ever said anything about it. I subscribe to those weekly emails for the programming languages we use at work and I read them when they com…

I've started using Friday as a "personal development" day at work. I do not write any code on Friday (unless it's a severe production level issue). Instead, I spend the mornings reviewing PRs that I wasn't included on (to keep up with whats happening, but also to learn more about how other people write and review code) and the afternoons are spent reading/researching/online classes. This has really helped me avoid bu…

This is what I encourage my staff to do. We have a company-wide bagel breakfast in the morning, and then no more meetings. We also skip our daily “async slack stand-up” on Fridays. My expectation for the day is that you prioritize personal development, long-term planning, or just “deck clearing” if you’ve had a long week or desire something less mentally demanding for the day. Obviously, thing happen that can interfere with the ideal, but it’s pretty rare and, when it happens, I make it a point to figure out if there’s a way to avoid it going forward.

What we don’t do, is “no deploy Fridays”. We deploy all the time, and maybe somebody wants to do some minor bug or light UI cleanup. I’m certainly not going to stop them. Requiring an “off-day” for deployments is a major red flag for me.

Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it

#388
post #239

I’ve always learned on the job and have never asked permission. I guess I’m lucky that I haven’t worked in the type of places where somebody’s looking over my shoulder every minute of the day. Somewhere around an hour a day every day and I’ve been doing it for years and nobody has ever said anything about it. I subscribe to those weekly emails for the programming languages we use at work and I read them when they com…

I used to do this, and then we "switched to be more agile." (This just meant using JIRA and tracking sprint efficiency wrong). Companies do think "It’s your responsibility to be on top of whatever’s going on in your field" and they might even claim that learning and development on the job is important, but when it comes time to log JIRA hours, they tend to show how much they really believe in this.

“using JIRA and tracking sprint efficiency wrong” is the working definition of agile at most companies AFAICT.

This makes me sad. I had a great experience with what I now think of as “authentic agile” at my second job, now I doubt I’ll ever get to do things that way ever again.

Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it

#389
post #29

In addition to having space to learn on a daily basis, more tech companies should consider offering a week of study leave in addition to what they offer in their vacation policy. I'm imagining the type of week that Bill Gates and John Carmack take.

> a week of study leave Nice thought, but if my wife can see me, that week will become "fix stuff around the house leave" or "visit her parents and don't read anything leave". If my coworkers can see me, that week becomes "fix these bugs for me leave". They'd have to fly me somewhere for that to work.

yep, should include a hotel room

Re: Learning at work is work, and we must make space for it

#390
post #64

My job gives us about 5K a year for individual training in addition to hosting meetups after work etc etc. The 5K can be used for training, conference and travel tickets etc etc. This is in Norway so everything is mostly nice all the time, but to be honest it is the first time I've had anything like this. Feels awesome.

Dang. I asked my job for a PluralSight account or if they have one and they said they'll "look into it."
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