Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 560 posts

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#381

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

foldr wrote: post #320
SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go ahead and compare rural US where all the guns are to rural Europe. Similar rates of crime and violence. Take out the major US metropolitan areas that have gun control and see what happens to your comparisons. When you compare an island the size of Mississippi with 29 citizens of 250k population and a much larger homogenous population, historically weak self-defense and higher reliance on government, etc etc to the…

>major US metropolitan areas that have gun control They don't have gun control in the sense that the UK and most other European countries have gun control. You can even get a permit to carry a concealed weapon in NYC, for example.

> You can even get a permit to carry a concealed weapon in NYC

Ok, I’ll do it for you. Rural crime in USA is 2.0 - 3.5 / 100k in USA depending on region. Where all the guns are, the shootings aren’t.

NYC... for example... SHALL ISSUE state, you’re effectively wrong. Only the connected and elite can get carry permits in NYC. That’ll change soon with the latest SC case coming up.

You’re right, it’s not “the same” gun control. Like Paris where guns for private ownership and stored in your home are effectively banned, yet, worse mass shootings than any in the US ever. Or Norway where black rifles are banned, but worse mass shooting of kids than any in the US.

You’re right, it’s not the same - but what we can look at is IN THE USA, the places with the most gun control have the most shootings, in inconvenient fact.

Ok, so... by your argument. It’s the people carrying legally in the US that are going around shooting people?

And I believe I proposed the question of why size AND population aren’t compared ever? I think it’s because when you compare Russia or Mexico or Brazil to US, with much stricter the gun control the argument falls apart. You need to pick small population and or small isolated homogeneous populations to make your argument - if you think that’s legitimate keep at it.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#382

Post by Joe-Z »

superkuh wrote: post #344
mc32 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The video on those systems usually is turned over every month. The video isn’t accessed unless there was an event. These systems aren’t integrated into larger systems to help track and ID people. That said, some of this could change if many shops go to nest or ring solutions... but most shop owners will not keep video footage indefinitely in the cloud as it’d be cost prohibitive.

Yep. That's exactly the kind of rationalization I'm talking about. You don't know any of that for sure for each machine camera and certainly don't know what a random person will do with a taken video.

Amazing how you got downvotes for that. I was just thinking why some people reacted so aggressively towards the guy filming. And tbh he behaves really annoyingly. If he really wanted to teach people a lesson about constant surveillance this certainly doesn't play in his favour.

But I think it also has to do with the fact that at least with him people actually have someone to be mad about. As opposed to their usual mode of surveillance where they are being filmed by a 'security' camera (hey, it's security people! nevermind if it doesn't actually make anything any safer) operated and owned probably by their boss or someone who they are not on equal grounds with.

It makes me kind of sad.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#383

Post by linuxftw »

zepto wrote: post #341
tomatotomato37 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some schools actually have banned things such as biking to school, along with playing tag, balls, and even running during recess over the same safety boogieman. It's frustrating how the whole freedom vs security balance thing falls off a cliff when children's rights are discussed. Sources edit: https://www.bicycling.com/news/a20026414/why-biking-to-schoo... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/03/parents-outrage-…

That sounds like prison.

As a child, it is exactly prison, it's not 'like' prison. You are controlled in location, action, and speech. You are told when to use the restroom, when to eat. Feeling sleepy today or maybe not getting along with an obnoxious inmate? Too bad for you, you're powerless.

I personally believe most school violence is induced by the prison-like nature of schools. They are inmate riots of 1.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#384

Post by shadowgovt »

hcurtiss wrote: post #378
snowwrestler wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you arguing that people in the U.S. should have guns so that they can shoot at U.S. police and military if they disagree with a government policy?

Yes, depending on the government policy, that is precisely what I'm arguing.

It's a fantasy Americans seem to uniquely believe in that arming the populace is a good deterrent against bad government policy.

If it actually worked, one would expect the US to be two separate nations now. After all, what was the Civil War if not a mass of Americans deciding extra-legally that the laws should not apply to them and taking up arms to break free of government oppression and form a government more inclined to protect their freedoms?

And yet, after a bloody conflict that claimed more American lives than World War II, the country is still one nation and Americans still cling to a strange belief that private gun ownership protects against tyranny (as if a tyrant wouldn't bring their own guns to bear against the citizenry, like Sherman burning towns south of the Mason-Dixon to hamstring the morale of the rebels).

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#385

Post by omginternets »

tssva wrote: post #238
Symbiote wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Monitoring internet access on school devices? That's been standard in every single school and workplace for decades. Blocking has been standard in some workplaces, and stricter blocking has been standard in schools, but monitoring isn't. Small and medium businesses and academia often have little or no blocking. No-one gets any alert if I write "I want to kill myself or maybe the president" here (over TLS), nor will…

Every large corporation I have worked with in the last 10 years has monitored internet access. Some block as well as monitor. The either monitor and block via network proxies and/or via locally installed software. When done locally the logs from the software are sent to a central logging system for the software. What the corporations do with that information has varied. Some don't actively look at it unless an issue…

Yes, and the point being made is that it's wrong.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#386

Post by Joe-Z »

mc32 wrote: post #324
superkuh wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine each one of those cameras were being held by a person. How would you react then? This is the true nature of the situation. Surveillance Camera Man made it explicit, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP5ZVPwP7bg : people hate being watched. Doing it with machines is an exploit for the human psyche.

The video on those systems usually is turned over every month. The video isn’t accessed unless there was an event. These systems aren’t integrated into larger systems to help track and ID people. That said, some of this could change if many shops go to nest or ring solutions... but most shop owners will not keep video footage indefinitely in the cloud as it’d be cost prohibitive.

Do you think the people being filmed would've behaved less aggressively if the camera man had told them that he only keeps footage for a month, doesn't run tracking and ID-ing software on it and only ever re-watches it when there was 'an event'?

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#387

Post by sdinsn »

lom888 wrote: post #163
shadowgovt wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The constant use of smartphones has become a pretty central part of US culture. Shouldn't school reflect the environment the student is being taught to live in?

Not to be flippant, but so is alcohol usage, should we encourage students to drink at school? Smartphone applications are designed to be addictive and have demonstrably negative effects upon the mental health of adolescents. Their usage should be vigorously discouraged by anyone who cares about the mental health of school students.

> but so is alcohol usage, should we encourage students to drink at school?

Not a great analogy, since the effects on alcohol are quite different than the effects of using a smartphone.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#388

Post by sdinsn »

MereInterest wrote: post #143
lolc wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look up how many kids are killed by cars. Then go see how many are killed by guns outside school. Then check how many are killed by guns in school.

Cars are designed to transport people from place to place, and cause death as an unfortunate side effect. Guns are designed to propel bullets at high speed, and cause death as the intended primary effect. There can be other conversations about the effectiveness of public transportation, and how the US infrastructure was designed around cars instead of buses/trains, but there is a pretty big difference beyond the numb…

The primary function is irrelevant.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#389

Post by bobbles »

Thriptic wrote: post #155

Poor, emotion driven risk management as usual. School shootings kill very few people per year and are rare events (especially in places that can afford this tech) despite what the New York Times would have you believe. Why not focus efforts on things that actually do kill young people, namely: * Car crashes (teach people to drive more defensively) * Suicides (provide better mental health services) * Violence that occ…

Comments like this look absolutely insane to anyone outside the US. Look at the numbers: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/21/us/school-shooting-us-ver...

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#390

Post by jdkdnfndnfjd »

carapace wrote: post #350

From my POV this is the natural continuation of an already-fucked-up situation. The rights of children have historically been neglected, and so we inflict on them what we dare not inflict on ourselves. I realized as a child that my parents were sending me to a fucked up place. They did it because they were out to lunch and not paying attention. I've never understood why most people, who sincerely love their children,…

What year did you graduate high school? I graduated 2010 and I cannot agree with you more. Public schools are a demented crossbreed of daycare, zoo with some prison culture mixed in.

Recently I’ve had a change in opinion though. I started volunteering at a daycare because I am so passionate about the shortcomings of public schools. And working with the kids has made me realize that most of them have no problem with public schools. Most of them aren’t smart enough to benefit from better education. True intellectual curiosity is very rare. And most of them enjoy the petty games of social hierarchy that dominate in public schools.

The one aspect of my opinion that hasn’t changed is that there should be more discipline. Bring back the paddle and rules. Boys need it psychologically, order and structure and consequences.

Post reply on HN