Google Fights Back • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Fights Back

#381

Post by mrhappyunhappy » Thu, May 09, 2019, 12:43 AM UTC

Nextgrid wrote: post #109

darkwizard42 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are espousing an "ADS ARE INHERENTLY BAD" mentality that just doesn't resonate with people. I want to know about the best services that are useful for me. I do not want to be advertised women's swimsuits on Instagram (I'm a male with no interest in purchasing said item). When I see ads that are useless its infuriating. However, when I see an ad for Allbirds or a cool new leather jacket, I feel very much i…

There’s a difference between ads targeted to information you provide explicitly (age & gender when you signed up, etc) and information that is obtained by stalking you across the entire internet. I’m all in for the former, but the latter should be made illegal.

Retargetting is a curse that needs to be eliminated. The idea of following people for up to (30?) days without an easy opt out is just so wrong. Just because I visited your website doesn’t mean I care to buy what you sell, no matter how long you stalk me.

Re: Google Fights Back

#382

Post by the_pwner224 » Thu, May 09, 2019, 12:53 AM UTC

cr0sh wrote: post #336

loudtieblahblah wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is already not Google. The "Don't Be Evil" corporation that valued open source rather than open-washing, that valued openstandards over "oops, we didn't mean to break that for you!" isn't here anymore. The company that bends over backwards, much farther than the law requires, to enable the surveillance state. I despise Apple. Especially on mobile. No SDCards, no headphone jack, walled garden app stores. Ugh ug…

> But my next phone will be an iPhone. I'm seriously considering my next phone to be one I build. The hardware is available - cheap 4G LTE modules that plug right into a Raspberry Pi Zero exist; that and a cheap touchscreen will get you around 90% of the functionality most of us need, hardware-wise. You won't have a camera, or motion sensors. You will have GPS, voice, data, a screen, storage... Basically everything y…

You may be interested in the Purism Librem 5 [0].

It's made by people who care about software freedom. It doesn't use the common ARM-based SoCs which require proprietary drivers and will be unusable with modern software in a few years. Everything except the cell modem (on a replaceable M.2 card connected over USB) runs 100% free software. The device as a whole runs Linux with Gnome, and Plasma Mobile + others also developing for it. The company contributes back to the OSS software they use/improve.

It doesn't have the form factor of the TRS-80 Model 100, but basically the deal you get with it is that you pay the price of a decently high end smartphone in exchange for a midrange smartphone which is completely controllable by you, as much as a normal Linux desktop, but still offers a 'pretty good' UI out of the box for normal phone usage.

[0]: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/

Re: Google Fights Back

#383

Post by username223 » Thu, May 09, 2019, 1:00 AM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #362

pdimitar wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I admire people like Richard Stallman and Sir Tim Berners-Lee, IMO they fail to understand that most people simply don't care -- they have a life, job, family and stuff they like to do in their free time and they want technology to enable them and save them time, not get in the way and take their free time. I used Debian as a main driver for several years and lost patience around 2010. Using a MacBook Pro with…

They don't fail to understand it. They just realize that if people don't push back, they won't have freedom to tinker even when they need it .

I had this argument 10-15 years ago, and agree about the potential for lock-in. But even at the time, I realized that I would rather not build Konqueror, Kate, or the Gimp from source, and would never make a significant change. They had become so complex that learning and keeping up with them enough to contribute would be a part-time job.

The current toss-it-over-the-wall-ware model is good enough. Android and Chromium technically "work" without Google, and their code is online. There are multiple Firefox forks. I don't know about OSS programs for Excel spreadsheets and Word docs, but I'm happy to sacrifice some freedom in order to never have to go down that rabbit-hole.

Re: Google Fights Back

#384

Post by kingaillas » Thu, May 09, 2019, 1:13 AM UTC

pdimitar wrote: post #257

nirvdrum wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same boat here. I'm not with Android because I think the OS is better or because I hate privacy. It's a matter of cost (I think I paid $650 net for my S9+) and lack of hardware options. I'm preaching to the choir, but it sucks that the only two viable options these days require such huge trade-offs. And that the premium for privacy is so much greater than what typical Android hardware costs. I'm glad you've been able…

Cost is rarely a concern unless you are barely making ends meet. iPhone's cost per year is actually lower than most Android flagships, if you factor in how quicker are the Android phones to start breaking down and/or lose their system software update window. So IMO Apple has the upper hand in terms of amortised cost (albeit not by much if you look at the insane prices of the iPhone XS/Max). I completely agree we shou…

>Cost is rarely a concern unless you are barely making ends meet.

Well then 40% of American households are concerned: https://money.cnn.com/2018/05/22/pf/emergency-expenses-house...

I'm a former ios user (9 years, from my 3GS in 2009 to my 6S which I used until 2018) that switched to Android last year mostly out of cost. Apple crossed a threshold I'm unwilling to follow.

Now I have a moto x4 that was just $300 so I'm not terrified to take it running/hiking with me in case I trip or fall or otherwise break/drop/lose the phone. It takes an SD card so I don't have to pay inflated rates for memory during purchase, the one chance you get. And on top of it I'm on a cheaper carrier (not strictly Apple's fault).

Re: Google Fights Back

#385

Post by paavoova » Thu, May 09, 2019, 1:18 AM UTC

pdimitar wrote: post #344

paavoova wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and supposedly more "locked down") ecosystem Is it not? Your entire post only argues "It is, but here's why it works for me...". Removing the "freedom to tinker" is taking two steps back from what a computer should be. And smartphones are growing to be the primary computing device for many, so in my mind it's ridiculous to argue them being locked-down a merit. Relying on apps from a walled-garden app store is not a…

You hijack my rather focused and narrow comment and try and broaden it to a much wider set of problems. Not a respectful discussion technique, partner. Of course we should have the right to repair. And of course many Apple users aren't okay with everything Apple does -- or you thought we were all mindless worshipping drones? No. We buy Apple because it makes the most sense for our needs. That's all there is to it. Bu…

I didn't hijack anything, I bring up RtR and privacy in response to the comment chain here saying "choose iOS, choose Apple, choose privacy". I directly address your post.

Now if you aimed your comment to be narrow then why broadly disregard the fact of Apple's ecosystem and related concerns as simply "supposedly" and freedom as "overrated"? There is nothing "supposed" about iOS being locked down, and "just find it on the App store" isn't viable alternative to the freedom Android offers. Neither is the contrast in the two platforms an "illusion" to merely adapt to.

> what choice is there out there if we want alternatives?

What Google does with Android remains a worry for the future, but the current-day choice simply from a matter of freedom and privacy is a LineageOS-supported device, preferably one requiring the least amount of blobs, alongside F-Droid. No Playstore and related frameworks installed. No accounts, no perpetual sign in and tracking, unlike Apple requiring you to be signed in with Apple ID even if you don't use their cloud services or just to install an app. If you must use apps that depend on Play Services, install MicroG and use Yalp. You have near full control of your device, which extends privacy since you can root, install low-level firewalls, and edit system-level files like hosts. Notice that this ecosystem is more Unix-like as opposed to just one big Apple ecosystem. You can decide yourself instead of Apple making choices for you.

With Apple, you only have one vendor, but with Android you have many choices you can make. Headphone jack? Too bad. Since iOS comes with Apple hardware, you have to discuss the two alongside each other. And for me, even ignoring the lock-down of iOS, I refuse to support Apple and vendor lock-in.

> For everybody else it's a huge security risk

Think-of-the-children fallacy. This always ignores the fact you can have the best of both - those none-the-wiser can continue using official means of installation. It also ignores the other side of the coin, developers wishing to offer programs but not interested in dealing with the Apple ecosystem - both them and users are out of luck in that case, and this can happen even if you're already on the app store if Apple decides to take down your app or developer account for whatever reason.

Re: Google Fights Back

#386

Post by lithiumfrost » Thu, May 09, 2019, 1:19 AM UTC

reilly3000 wrote: post #171

pdimitar wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully switched from Android to iOS when iPhone X came out in November 2017. I realised in the next months that the perceived "freedom to tinker" on Android is something hugely overrated. I could achieve almost everything I wanted on my iPhone -- it just took a bit of time to find the proper apps. Later Apple added the Shortcuts which is a very solid automation app. Many Android users also lament the lack of a visib…

No need to jailbreak. Just dial 3001#12345# for field mode and enjoy the stats!

Do you know how to get the same field test data on an iPad where there is no dialer?

Re: Google Fights Back

#387

Post by [deleted] » Thu, May 09, 2019, 1:39 AM UTC

throwayEngineer wrote: post #202

areoform wrote: post #7

Google owns my soul. Their boxes know when I sleep, when I wake, how much I exercise, what I listen to, my innermost thoughts, my chats with loved ones, what I watched on Netflix last night, what my company does, the flu I have at the moment, what the hypochondriac in me looks up in the middle of the night, what I buy, whom I call, what I spend money on, where I spend it... I nominally pay for these services, but I s…

You think Apple is less evil than Google? Remember that Apple has been cracked by the FBI, has proprietary connectors, and charges more than anyone. I couldn't disagree more. Apple is horrible to customers and developers.

[deleted]

Re: Google Fights Back

#388

Post by xbmcuser » Thu, May 09, 2019, 1:47 AM UTC

paavoova wrote: post #305

Daniel_sk wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android Q is adding scoped storage and it's more or less the end of a visible file system. Even the existing file manager apps will have trouble to show files without special permissions.

Key word is "permissions", right? Meaning apps that don't wish to scare users with permissions will adopt the new API, but existing filesystem access should continue to function. Otherwise this would be crippling to some users and apps and I doubt it would go over well.

They are crippling it some way I am a heavy user of calibre companion app on Android. A library type app that you use to open books in the readers of your choice. But according to the dev of calibre companion opening the book into a reader of your choice will break

Re: Google Fights Back

#389

Post by mirkules » Thu, May 09, 2019, 1:57 AM UTC

notI wrote: post #345

nybble41 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> NONE of which I consented to Google using. And that is where you are wrong. You DID consent to this use of the information in your email when you signed up with Google as your email provider. They don't exactly make any secret of the fact that the emails in your account will be data-mined, both for the various assistant features they offer and for their own business purposes, including marketing. It is not Google's…

> You DID consent to this use of the information in your email when you signed up with Google as your email provider. No, I (not the original poster) didn't. I signed up with a Gmail account years before any of this existed, and I never would have guessed they would do what the original poster is concerned about. At no point was I informed that this type of stuff would start happening. I figured it out by reading a l…

I signed up with gmail back when it was by invite only, around 2003. So you’re absolutely right.

Re: Google Fights Back

#390

Post by mirkules » Thu, May 09, 2019, 2:01 AM UTC

nybble41 wrote: post #282

mirkules wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is unethical, or at the very least, unsettling the way it is presented. I am actually in awe at how many folks - especially HN folks - are ok with this. Years ago, I looked at my Google dashboard. They knew when i filed for taxes, how much was owed/reimbursed, my medical history. NONE of which I consented to Google using. Google is constantly eroding the expectation of privacy we have wrt to our emails (and probab…

> NONE of which I consented to Google using. And that is where you are wrong. You DID consent to this use of the information in your email when you signed up with Google as your email provider. They don't exactly make any secret of the fact that the emails in your account will be data-mined, both for the various assistant features they offer and for their own business purposes, including marketing. It is not Google's…

> There are email providers other than Google, and means of communication other than email. Encryption is also widely available for those motivated enough to use it.

One more point I’m concerned about is that Google is changing the standard of what is acceptable for an email provider, to read your emails and use them how they see fit. This is something people casually gloss over. Would you be equally as upset if UPS or FedEx looked inside your packages and then bombard you with adverts, or sell the data to someone else?