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Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

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Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#381

Post by derpherp »

natch wrote: post #368
derpherp wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, LIDAR has drawbacks too. That's why almost all autonomous vehicle systems "fuse" LIDAR and vision data together. The debate here should be LIDAR + camera vs only camera. Musk has turned the conversation to LIDAR vs camera.

Wow you are commenting, but you didn’t watch the event I guess because that’s not what Musk said.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I indeed watched the entire stream and not once do I recall Musk mentioning sensor fusion.

Instead, he just focussed on the drawbacks that LIDAR had, which can be corrected if feeds from LIDAR and camera were to be combined. This is why every other AV company uses sensor fusion. No one uses LIDAR just by itself and Tesla should not use vision just by itself.

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#382

Post by monk_e_boy »

alyx wrote: post #375
sytelus wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Karpathy is great at presenting executive-101. However self-driving is much much more than image classification. You have a time component, you need to integrate information as it comes in to meaningful state (aka SLAM) and make sequential decisions that has potential to kill people. This is still unsolved research problem unlike punny ImageNet classification. Karpathy could have easily spent entire day talking about…

Good overview, I share your opinion. Tesla is betting BIG on NNs. In the presentation they say that we have NNs in our brain. Which is why we can look at one photo of a dog, and distill enough identifying information in order to spot the breed from then on. Training sample of 1. Curiously though, they than say that NNs don't work like our brains do, and require A LOT of training data from all angles, etc. Training sa…

> require A LOT of training data from all angles

Also, we learn things outside of our cars. I ride a bike, this gives me insight into what bike riders will do on the road.

I have kids, so I know a kid on the pavement will be more risky / unpredictable than an adult.

I drove down a single track road today and met another car coming towards me. We stopped, then he started to reverse, there was a passing place behind him. Another car pulled up behind him, so I then reversed back into a field to let the cars past. This sort of thing happened maybe six times today as I drove around. Not at all surprising, not even noteworthy enough for any of the drivers to acknowledge even a flick of the finger in thanks. Just part of driving here.

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#383

Post by mrep »

slg wrote: post #321
RivieraKid wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo operates the first autonomous taxi service in Phoenix with plans to expand geographically, no info about the others.

Phoenix basically provides perfect conditions for self driving cars. There is very little precipitation. It gets more daylight and sunlight than any other major city in the US. There is little to no vehicle endangering wildlife. The city was mostly designed post-cars meaning there are lots of big newish straight roads and there isn't much pedestrian culture. To put it simply there is a lot of "reality" that exists in…

Is tesla able to perform at Waymos level in phoenix because I would expect them to be showing that off if they could? Let's be real, there has got to be some teslas with autopilot in Phoenix and the fact that they aren't trying to upshow Waymo with their Phoenix autopilot stats shows they cannot beat Waymo.

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#384

Post by rayiner »

slg wrote: post #321
RivieraKid wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo operates the first autonomous taxi service in Phoenix with plans to expand geographically, no info about the others.

Phoenix basically provides perfect conditions for self driving cars. There is very little precipitation. It gets more daylight and sunlight than any other major city in the US. There is little to no vehicle endangering wildlife. The city was mostly designed post-cars meaning there are lots of big newish straight roads and there isn't much pedestrian culture. To put it simply there is a lot of "reality" that exists in…

Note that currently Tesla’s “autopilot” doesn’t even beat Toyota’s and Subaru’s adaptive cruise control: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a24511826/safety-featu...

You can’t even mention Tesla in the same breath as Waymo.

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#385

Post by eanzenberg »

p1esk wrote: post #360
sytelus wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Karpathy is great at presenting executive-101. However self-driving is much much more than image classification. You have a time component, you need to integrate information as it comes in to meaningful state (aka SLAM) and make sequential decisions that has potential to kill people. This is still unsolved research problem unlike punny ImageNet classification. Karpathy could have easily spent entire day talking about…

This is still unsolved research problem Luckily, Karpathy is pretty good at solving research problems. Karpathy could have easily spent entire day talking about current state of the art and how they have improved on it Why would he do that? To help Uber? Collecting data is actually more trivial part of this problem. For Tesla, yes. For all others that’s the hardest part.

Maybe when Tesla cars stop driving into medians at full speed...

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#386

Post by bluthru »

iandanforth wrote: post #87

Tesla: "We have a global network of cameras that can be queried to find anything on or near roads and send back photos of it." Every law enforcement entity on the planet: drool

If this could only be used for good it would be amazing. It could look out for lost pets, missing people, stolen bikes, suspects, etc.

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#387

Post by rayiner »

Symmetry wrote: post #219
metafunctor wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point was that lidar is too low resolution. You must have very high resolution (in both time and space) to achieve L4 or L5; to accurately determine if a pedestrian is not paying attention, or if a bicyclist is looking to cross the road. Not that Tesla is doing any of that right now, they most likely are not. But a lidar is not going to, either. Not ever, which is the point. I thought the fleet learning a…

You can achieve L4 before you can determine if a pedestrian is paying attention. Your car will be slowing down when it doesn't have to but it can work and work safely.

Slowing down isn’t always an option and it’s not always safe. (What happens when all the human driven cars keep driving at normal speed? You’ve now created an unsafe traffic condition for everyone.)

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#388

Post by eanzenberg »

SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #315
rohit2412 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So call them driver assists. I am tired of seeing driver assists being sold as driverless systems.

Do you think people buying cars with autopilot believe they are getting fully driverless systems?

yes

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#389

Post by slg »

rayiner wrote: post #384
slg wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phoenix basically provides perfect conditions for self driving cars. There is very little precipitation. It gets more daylight and sunlight than any other major city in the US. There is little to no vehicle endangering wildlife. The city was mostly designed post-cars meaning there are lots of big newish straight roads and there isn't much pedestrian culture. To put it simply there is a lot of "reality" that exists in…

Note that currently Tesla’s “autopilot” doesn’t even beat Toyota’s and Subaru’s adaptive cruise control: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a24511826/safety-featu... You can’t even mention Tesla in the same breath as Waymo.

That article is judging AEB which is a safety feature that comes free on Teslas and isn't a part of the Autopilot system. It would obviously instill more confidence if Teslas performed better, but this isn't a measure of the company's Autopilot or FSD capabilities since it is entirely possible that AEB is a completely independent system.

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#390

Post by slg »

mrep wrote: post #383
slg wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phoenix basically provides perfect conditions for self driving cars. There is very little precipitation. It gets more daylight and sunlight than any other major city in the US. There is little to no vehicle endangering wildlife. The city was mostly designed post-cars meaning there are lots of big newish straight roads and there isn't much pedestrian culture. To put it simply there is a lot of "reality" that exists in…

Is tesla able to perform at Waymos level in phoenix because I would expect them to be showing that off if they could? Let's be real, there has got to be some teslas with autopilot in Phoenix and the fact that they aren't trying to upshow Waymo with their Phoenix autopilot stats shows they cannot beat Waymo.

Autopilot isn't trying to compete with Waymo and therefore any comparison there is irrelevant. Tesla hasn't rolled out FSD publicly so it is unclear whether Tesla would have any data about it performs in Phoenix.
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