Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I understand it, this class of “telescope” is made up of arrays of telescopes spread as widely over the hemisphere as possible. We can only get data like this by collaborating with as many different sites as possible. It literally can’t exist without broad support from many countries. As one of the scientists said in the interview, the next step is a telescope bigger than the earth. Hopefully we can collaborate on…
Constructing a telescope on Mars would be a valuable investment when a permanent presence is based there.
Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video]
381–390 of 525 posts
Re: Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video]
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I understand it, this class of “telescope” is made up of arrays of telescopes spread as widely over the hemisphere as possible. We can only get data like this by collaborating with as many different sites as possible. It literally can’t exist without broad support from many countries. As one of the scientists said in the interview, the next step is a telescope bigger than the earth. Hopefully we can collaborate on…
Constructing a telescope on Mars would be a valuable investment when a permanent presence is based there.
Re: Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video]
#383The US unveiling is WAY better than the EU unveiling that is linked to above. They have images, animations and graphs that's easily understandable by the layperson, and it's scientists instead of politicians speaking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DxjuE7WDlk They talk about how the image was produced, and how they made such a small image out of the 5 PetaByte of data they gathered from stations all over the world.
It's very well communicated in a way most can understand, it's concise and it has great accompanying graphics.
Re: Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video]
#384Earlier quoted context omitted.
So how much this picture cost ?
$40m So basically nothing in the grand scheme of anything.
This specific project is more European or even a world project than just US, if I understood correctly.
Re: Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video]
#385Re: Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video]
#386Re: Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video]
#387Good video that correctly predicted the image and describes why it looks the way it does [1]. TL; DR The dark area is the entire surface of the event horizon, including the side facing away from us, plus some more due to photons missing the event horizon "directly" being drawn in. One side is brighter due to its being Doppler boosted. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUyH3XhpLTo
Re: Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video]
#388Re: Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video]
#389Re: Unveiling the first-ever image of a black hole [video]
#390Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's good science. Been able to make testable predictions and then confirming them or disproving them is the entire (awesome) point.
After having said that, I did a bit more research into how the image was made. I am of course reserving judgement as I don't fully understand the underlying technology. But it sounds like they used an interpolation algorithm to come up with the image based on renderings of what we "think" a black hole should look like. This high level overview from a ted talk goes into how they 'unbias' the data. But it is obviously…
That being said, it seems your concerns are being addressed in the TED talk you linked to from 8:45 onward?
Moreover, in the NSF press conference today it was said that they had four different teams in four different locations across the globe last year, working on interpolating the data and generating the images and they basically asked the teams to lock themselves in, i.e. to not communicate with each other at all, and use (more or less) whatever interpolation algorithm they thought would fit the data best. And at the end, when the four teams met up last year, they had supposedly arrived at very similar-looking images.
I briefly(!) looked at the papers that were published today ("First M87 Event Horizon Telescope Results" I-VI) and while I'm anything but an expert when it comes to radioastronomy and imaging technology (I'm more a theoretical physics/mathematical general relativity kind of guy), I came across the following statements which, to me, all suggest that they've at least evaluated the data with due diligence (emphases all mine):
"IV. Imaging the Central Supermassive Black Hole" (https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/2041-8213/ab0e85):
Section 5.2 confirms the statements from the press conference today:
> The imaging teams worked on the data independently, without communication, for seven weeks, after which teams submitted images to the image comparison website using LCP data (because the JCMT recorded LCP on April 11). After ensuring image consistency through a variety of blind metrics (including normalized cross-correlation, Equation (15)), we compared the independently reconstructed images from the four teams.
> Figure 4 shows these first four images of M87. All four images show an asymmetric ring structure. For both RML teams and both CLEAN teams, the ring has a diameter of approximately 40 μas, with brighter emission in the south. In contrast, the ring azimuthual profile, thickness, and brightness varies substantially among the images. Some of these differences are attributable to different assumptions about the total compact flux density and systematic uncertainties (see Table 2).
Section 6, in turn, confirms the statements from the TED talk:
From the introduction to section 6:
> To explore the dependence of the reconstructed images on imaging assumptions and impartially determine a combination of fiducial imaging parameters, we introduced a second stage of image production and analysis: performing scripted parameter surveys for three imaging pipelines. To objectively evaluate the fidelity of the images reconstructed by our surveys—i.e., to select imaging parameters that were independent of expert judgment—we performed these surveys on synthetic data from a suite of model images as well as on the M87 data. The synthetic data sets were designed to have properties that are similar to the EHT M87 visibility amplitudes (e.g., prominent amplitude nulls). This suite of synthetic data allowed us to test the scripted reconstructions with knowledge of the corresponding ground truth images and, thereby, select fiducial imaging parameters for each method. These fiducial parameters were selected to perform well across a variety of source structures, including sources without the prominent ring observed in our images of M87.
From section 6.2:
> We then reconstructed images from all M87 and synthetic data sets using all possible parameter combinations on a coarse grid in the space of these parameters. We chose large ranges for each parameter, deliberately including values that we expected to produce poor reconstructions.
Finally, in the caption of figure 4 of "I. The Shadow of the Supermassive Black Hole" (https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/2041-8213/ab0ec7) they write:
> Note that although the fit to the observations is equally good in the three cases, they refer to radically different physical scenarios; this highlights that a single good fit does not imply that a model is preferred over others
…which, assuming that I'm understanding this correctly, means that the bias in the fits towards one model over another is low.
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Again, I cannot stress enough that I've only skimmed the papers but from what I did read, I see no good reason not to trust their results.