Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 399 posts

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#381

Post by vsl »

Asparagirl wrote: post #158
whatok wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to what other replies have said, Elon also has pledged some of his stock in order to secure personal loans. He will have to fund margin calls or sell his stock if the stock falls below a certain price.

THIS. Elon is the largest Tesla stockholder, but he has taken out huge loans against that stock. If the stock price of TSLA falls below about $230/share (there is some confusion about the exact price, but it's widely believed to be somewhere around there) his stock could all be sold to cover the loan, which would suddenly dump the stock price even further, or he could be forced to post more of his stock as collateral…

> turning a profit (which has never ever happened)

"Never ever" as in two profitable quarters? https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/29/tesla-still-isnt-profitable-...

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#382

Post by jazzyjackson »

Latteland wrote: post #236
ProAm wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he's out at the CEO of Tesla soon anyways. Regardless of this mess.

Why? He's succeeded against all odds in making a fantastic car, that's not in dispute, and they'll be profitable almost in q3 and definitely in q4.

I don't think a giant touchscreen for an interface has broad appeal but we'll see how they sell. iirc there aren't even buttons to lock the doors? talk about cheap.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#383

Post by jazzyjackson »

jimmaswell wrote: post #177
chollida1 wrote: post #5

The sad piece of karma in all of this is that Musk tweeted in an effort to destroy the shorts. His tweet turned out to: - give the shorts a big dip in his stock, - an investigation by the SEC - an investigation by the DOJ - the backing off of a deep pocketed investor in the Saudis - Him potentially being personally liable, which would mean having to step away from SpaceX and Tesla if he was found guilty of fraud. Thi…

It would be a (possibly huge) blow to our future as a planet if he were banned from being an executive of a company for even just 2 years. I hope for humanity's sake that it doesn't come to that.

get a better future

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#384

Post by jazzyjackson »

lgeorget wrote: post #231
baddox wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although that is definitely an oversimplification (there are plenty of limitations to freedom of expression), why is your description particularly odd or difficult to understand? If an executive at a public company makes misleading public statements with the intention to cause certain transactions (which may or may not be the case here), that's a pretty clear financial crime with clear victims. I don't see why jail t…

Well, of course I realize that I'm oversimplifying and exaggerating but my point was that I have the impression that messing with money is a much more serious problem than messing with people in the USA.

freedom of speech is not the freedom to defraud

it's as simple as that

so i agree that US law makes a bigger deal out of messing with money than messing with feelings

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#385

Post by nickik »

ivraatiems wrote: post #222
nickik wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How I define successful. Well, how about go back 10 years and look at the size of Tesla and SpaceX. And then look at them now. I dont think anybody can argue that he was not succcessful.

But Tesla is not profitable, SpaceX claims to be but the veracity of the claim is untested. They're constantly at risk of collapse (due to bad management), and they don't seem to be self-sustaining - Tesla in particular needs infusions of cash constantly to function, and is essentially on life support. They do make good (or at least novel and fascinating) products, but the cost of doing so is extremely high. Why does…

Profit doesn't matter growth matters. How can you live in the 21 century and still hold to the idea that profit is what matters? I mean we have seen so many company not make profit for a long time, were they all not successful?

I mean, Tesla could be profitable if they didn't fund massive amounts of expansion.

> Why does "big" == successful? I'm not saying money is the only thing we should ever optimize for, but I'm skeptical that growth is a viable alternative.

They are optimizing for money. They want more revenue, not more profit.

The question is not if the company is profitable, but rather if each product individually can be profitable.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#386

Post by Ftuuky »

zwerdlds wrote: post #373
hcknwscommenter wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure. What direction will it "sure move" if you short 20% of FB float? You have to borrow a stock to short it from someone, so the stock that you short is not actually sold just lent.

Hedge funds, which can turn huge sums into market swings often use this technique to drop the price, creating additional drops from panic sell offs, allowing them to make a margin on it from the bottom.

Is that legal?

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#387

Post by pcollins123 »

Fricken wrote: post #294
hef19898 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the episodes on the Netflix documentary Dirty Money is about short sellers with regards to certain pharma stocks (the one click baiting with Skreli in the thumbnail but not in the story, otherwise it is a great watch). And one thing that struck about me about the short seller they interviewed was her analytical and systematic approach to it. What she was looking for was yet to be recognized flaws in a certain…

Short sellers are not mean, it's a good thing they exist. They're calling out companies they believe have serious problems, to the benefit of shareholders who are being misled.

Except when they're actively expounding upon and peddling bad news to ensure the stock price drops at the right time. That is what Musk is most frustrated by.

In my mind, all negative news about Tesla is now called into doubt as being news peddled by shorts. This is the challenge of declining journalism standards: all news now has someone with a vested interest behind it.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#388

Post by hef19898 »

pcollins123 wrote: post #387
Fricken wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short sellers are not mean, it's a good thing they exist. They're calling out companies they believe have serious problems, to the benefit of shareholders who are being misled.

Except when they're actively expounding upon and peddling bad news to ensure the stock price drops at the right time. That is what Musk is most frustrated by. In my mind, all negative news about Tesla is now called into doubt as being news peddled by shorts. This is the challenge of declining journalism standards: all news now has someone with a vested interest behind it.

I havr to disagree here. Considering all the real trouble Tesla is currently in, not to mention Musk himself, and with otger car makers catching up electrical vehicles there is undeniably some doubt about Tesla as a company. On top that you have shaky financials and the departure of important executives, also in financial department. So yes, just looking at that without any hard number crunching and financial analysis the picture is not rousy.

All of which is sad, Tesla really had and still has some appeal to it. I don't think that appeal in itself is enough for a public company.

And by the way, not all negative reporting is automatically bad journalism or even fake news.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#389

Post by MintPattern »

maxlamb wrote: post #145
S_A_P wrote: post #53

Sometimes its possible to care so much that you lose sight of what is important. This happened to Elon. I think this will be a case study someday about CEO ethics. I found it very interesting that when he was on the Joe Rogan podcast he had so much to say about social media, and none of it was complementary. How he did not see the dichotomy of his twitter use and this situation strikes me as humorous. I feel like Elo…

Ethics? While true I think it will be more of a case study on sleep deprivation and the increased risk of making huge mistaken even for a "genius." I'm willing to bed 2hrs of extra sleep a day and delegating a bit more to have these 2hrs would have not only minimized these stupid mistakes, but obviously greatly increased his well-being and life-expectancy. In short, no matter how smart you are, if you have so much hu…

Yes, he seemed to be sleep deprived in that Rogan podcast.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#390

Post by abalone »

SilasX wrote: post #356
abalone wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm saying the idea of just making a misstatement doesn’t necessarily rise to the level of fraud. You have to do something with intentionality. Oops, I mean I didn't say that. The head of the San Francisco SEC office did.

Yes, but proving intent is the easy part of this, what with Musk's propensity to trash-talk short-sellers.

Disliking short sellers is not the same as intent to defraud the public. Every CEO dislikes short sellers. Intent to commit fraud is absolutely the hardest part of this to prove.
Post reply on HN