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Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

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Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#381

Post by qubex »

Kalium wrote: post #331
qubex wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might add that Silicon Valley et al has not simply cleverly redefined the meaning of ’sharing’ to cover their rental practices, but even the meaning of community has been totally warped out of shape. A community used to be a group of geographically proximate people whose collective survival depended on getting over their sometimes conflicting mutual interests and opinions in order to survive; now we use the term ’c…

Personally, I view this as a distinct upgrade. Instead of being coerced into lots of interaction with people I may have nothing in common with except vague geographical proximity, I have the option of interacting with people who actually share my interests or concerns or hobbies. To me, this isn't isolated loners. It's the first real community I've ever known. The first one I've ever actually felt like I was a part o…

The problem with this “virtual community” interpretation is that it alters both people’s perception of prevailing opinions and skews their perception of how and whether they ‘need’ to find compromises with people they actually share space with. Somebody can find a ‘community’ online with whom to share very unconventional views and come away with the perception that this unconventional view is actually widespread despite being very rare.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#382

Post by desireco42 »

coldtea wrote: post #378
Kalium wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I view this as a distinct upgrade. Instead of being coerced into lots of interaction with people I may have nothing in common with except vague geographical proximity, I have the option of interacting with people who actually share my interests or concerns or hobbies. To me, this isn't isolated loners. It's the first real community I've ever known. The first one I've ever actually felt like I was a part o…

> Personally, I view this as a distinct upgrade. Instead of being coerced into lots of interaction with people I may have nothing in common with except vague geographical proximity, I have the option of interacting with people who actually share my interests or concerns or hobbies. I.e. echo chamber.

To respond to OG comment spirit:

I love my echo chamber, thank you very much! :)

But I get what you are saying and agree, but also with OG comment as well.

I think we want same things, more genuine connection with people who are meaningful to us.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#383

Post by jopsen »

Extreme consumerism trends downwards in a few obscure commodities and someone proclaims the end of private property.

Give me break, collections of books, DVDs and CDs have always been largely worthless. Cars was never an investment tool.

Real estate, stocks, bonds is property with at least some value. Put stats on that before arguing that private ownership is in decline. (I'm not saying it isn't)

I'm merely saying consumerism was never about private ownership, or am I missing something?

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#384

Post by paulie_a »

lovich wrote: post #207
pathseeker wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The substitution of individual ownership for a communal one in which individuals retain a stake - a real community, or at a larger scale, a democracy - is not inherently bad. IMO it's still terrible if there is effectively only one product option. A democratic decision is just as bad as a shareholder one if it's choosing to favor a majority group over the minority (2 wolves and 1 sheep voting for dinner choices). >o…

If the local can company had an option for me to call one of their cans and i could track it to my door, I probably never would have used Uber. There's some value in being an app you can use in any city, but the number of people who are jet setting around the world _and_ need a cab is probably quite low

I basically avoid cabs at all costs. I'd rather stand in front of an available cab and get an Uber because of crappy cab experiences are. The drivers are miserable and rude and the cleanliness is low.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#385

Post by theonemind »

supernovae wrote: post #315
tjr225 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, that's kind of a stretch...also, there are usually multiple ways to approach a long commute (I don't have a long commute, but I have had one in the past).

how is it a stretch? he's traded an ideological view for another? I live in Austin, and I'm tired of hearing how traffic bad is from people who decided to buy a 3,500 sq foot home 40 miles outside of town and complain about "traffic" driving in. we have a pretty messed up view of "owning" something without realizing that "owning" doesn't mean much other than "being owned by..." that big commute owns YOU

IH-35 around Congress is literally a parking lot from like 4PM to 6PM. I don't think I ever knew anyone that lived so close to work that traffic wasn't a problem for them.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#386

Post by wsy »

lazerpants wrote: post #185
ksec wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would much rather they build an Appliance that were design to last 10+ years, and with an warranty of 10 years for a higher price. Such design would means the company has an incentive for the fridge not to break in the 10 years, and extremely simple to fix within the 10 years. There are things that I would like to buy for life. Kitchenwares, Desk, etc. There are things that are consumable and may be being a service…

I think Miele has ten year warranties for some appliances, and it wouldn't surprise me if Viking does. I know that Sub-Zero warranties some parts for up to 12 years. So, if you are really willing to spend big money on appliances, you can get lengthy warranties. Anecdotally, Viking, Miele, and Bosch appliances last a very, very long time.

We are quite offtopic already, so: in my experience, Liebherr fridges last decades.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#387

Post by pytyper2 »

_bxg1 wrote: post #134

The article identifies some problems but totally misses their actual source. The problem isn't that we own less stuff, it's that the ownership is replaced by a dependency on a handful of corporations which we have no ability to influence or appeal to. The substitution of individual ownership for a communal one in which individuals retain a stake - a real community, or at a larger scale, a democracy - is not inherentl…

It's bad because our historical growth is based on us accumulating things using credit. Producing and consuming things is what creates job growth which sustains our growing population. Our acceptance of inflation due to said consumerism, credit, and the black hole of the federal reserve issuing new currency is what provides "new money" for investment in research. If we transition to a society where things are no longer valued for possession I have to think that we won't care to share them either. If a car is not cool enough for me to want to own, why would I care to use the communal car rather than the bus? Can the auto industry survive selling 10% of the vehicles is does now? Will consumers pay 10x what they pay now, it costs no less for R & D, all while not truly owning the thing? This communal ownership changes half the paradigm, the funds to rent the items still needs to come from an economy that relies on people buying things to own and those things becoming unavailable to the rest of us forcing new consumers to buy new things from a factory and hopefully destroying it or hoarding it before it hits the secondary market. I think we need to stay on the current path until we have abundant free energy.

Add: I also feel this is why new home sales is such an important metric to judge the momentum of the US economy, lots of new home sales means lots of new home-wares. You buy or build a house you also buy a refrigerator, microwave, carpet, furniture etc. Mostly on credit. If we truly become a communal society the cycle is broken, the same people who said "no new house and no new car, I'll just save my cash" now earn less 5 years later because there are many fewer things sold and the interconnected supply chain stalls.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#388

Post by Someguywhatever »

dionidium wrote: post #335
Someguywhatever wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to share tools with your neighbor you have to know them and be on and maintain a good relationship with them. There are numerous downsides to borrowing and sharing, so much so that people would rather not do it. Nobody wants to pester their neighbor over and over to use some tool X. It's annoying for them and annoying for you. Ideally the tools would exist off both of your properties in some neutral place…

Fine, but that doesn't explain the installation of crappy Wal-Mart-special basketball hoops adjacent to the public park's pristine full-courts. Nor does it explain the U.S.'s intense aversion to public transit, which burns far hotter than any practical consideration could possibly explain. Neither does it shed any light on the sad way in which suburban dads build rickety basement bars, never stopping to consider that…

>There's pretty clearly something deeper here.

IDK why there has to be something deeper.

>public park's pristine full-courts

I mean there's only so many courts maybe you don't want to play with other people you just want to take shots, and it's convenient.

>Neither does it shed any light on the sad way in which suburban dads build rickety basement bars

They do it to hang out with their friends. Same way you order a pizza and eat it at home instead of at the restaurant. What are you after the pizza or "being at a restaurant". For most people it's the pizza. The phenomenon of rickety basement bars as you call them is just people hanging out at home drinking cheaper beer at a home built bar. They get some of that "I'm out of the house" vibe while getting all the "hanging out with my friends" that they really want.

I don't know what else you are implying could be operating here. So I'll have to assume you just hate improvised home bars.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#389

Post by TaylorAlexander »

baochan wrote: post #152
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To help change the system, we could build The Machine: http://tlalexander.com/machine/

I kept reading expecting The Machine to be a metaphor for local economies or something, but no, they want to actually build a Star Trek-style replicator that runs on a trickle of water and garbage that's funded by Kickstarter.

I’m the author. Actually building the machine is one possible outcome but essentially The Machine is a metaphor for local economies. A fact I’ve felt I should clarify in a subsequent essay.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#390

Post by lsmarigo »

qubex wrote: post #381
Kalium wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I view this as a distinct upgrade. Instead of being coerced into lots of interaction with people I may have nothing in common with except vague geographical proximity, I have the option of interacting with people who actually share my interests or concerns or hobbies. To me, this isn't isolated loners. It's the first real community I've ever known. The first one I've ever actually felt like I was a part o…

The problem with this “virtual community” interpretation is that it alters both people’s perception of prevailing opinions and skews their perception of how and whether they ‘need’ to find compromises with people they actually share space with. Somebody can find a ‘community’ online with whom to share very unconventional views and come away with the perception that this unconventional view is actually widespread desp…

this is at the core of why the fabric of our society is unraveling. We're heading deeper in this direction with no signs of slowing down. Algorithms that optimize for engagement metrics amplify this.

why would anyone entertain let alone engage opposing viewpoints when it's much more comfortable to just retreat to a place with common similar beliefs. Make no mistake Hn is an echo chamber as well.

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