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I Got Catfished by a Candidate

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Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#381

Post by ozim »

justherefortart wrote: post #136
chickenfries wrote: post #123

> However, I am glad that I caught it early before we hired him. If we had hired him, tough to say what could have happened. Maybe he would have been great and our best performing AE. Maybe he wouldn’t have even known how to log into Salesforce. When you make it to the top by lying, you're considered a winner: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-goldman-gary-cohn-got-to-... > "I lied to him all the way to the airport,…

Everyone lies, because the interviewing process itself is a fucking joke, ESPECIALLY in the Bay Area. If the person can answer all my questions and they have a good attitude, I honestly don't give a shit what got them to that point. If someone doesn't work out, you can fire them. Yes it's "exhausting", maybe if it's so difficult to manage or run a business you should find a different role for yourself. I really enjoy…

Ok if you make up 10% or 15% but faking references is like all alarms going off. I know it is creative and he had to put in effort to pull it off. But it is not like I would give such person access to any company documents. Account Executive has to have access to invoicing and customer database. If guy makes such fake accounts and all that stuff I can imagine he is going to try to steal company data and run away with it or sell it to competition.

So if someone answers all your questions and have good attitude but then steals company data that can be end of your career in the company as well. Because maybe you were his friend in crime...

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#382

Post by tigershark »

maxxxxx wrote: post #78

I don't think we should use such stories as a reason to make the hiring process even more paranoid. In general people are pretty honest so I wouldn't like to see them having to jump through even more hoops because of a few fraudsters. Advice number 1 is probably best : "Trust your gut". If something doesn't make sense it's worth clearing that up.

I also thought that people were pretty honest, but after reading this discussion with people asserting that “everyone lies” at work and other people defending the liars, I’m not so sure anymore. Much better to err on the side of the caution then and add more checks.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#383

Post by T2_t2 »

abiox wrote: post #210
lovich wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are controlling how work is done then you have an employee. If subcontracting is unacceptable and you are still hiring contractors then you are just trying to run around employment law, at least in the US

do you have specific citations or is this some ideological stance? to me it makes zero sense to hire a vetted contractor who can then just toss say, classified data, over to some unknown random. it's a completely untenable proposition.

In Australia, that is the law. You pay employees and contractors differently, and they have different benefits.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#385

Post by raesene9 »

Steeeve wrote: post #348

It's strange to me how much linkedin is valued in silicon valley because to me it's like the ugly stepsister of social networking. Expecting someone to have a fully built out profile and expecting that person to actively seek out contacts in their own company is strange. I typically seek out contacts either when I first meet them or not at all. The only rhyme or reason to when I do it is when I happen to have a reaso…

I'm not really surprised at how heavily linkedin is used. It's an easy check for companies to carry out, so they'll make use of it.

As a candidate spending a bit of time connecting to people on Linkedin can help your chances of finding a role, so why not do it? Obviously, some people will have other better avenues of getting roles, but it's one avenue that can be used.

Personally I've never used Linkedin to find a role however I do find it handy just to get an idea of who works where in the industry and where pepople I've known in previous roles work now.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#386

Post by tigershark »

lovich wrote: post #272
abiox wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you have specific citations or is this some ideological stance? to me it makes zero sense to hire a vetted contractor who can then just toss say, classified data, over to some unknown random. it's a completely untenable proposition.

If you are requireing who can do the work and how it's done you've constrained the person into an employee-employer relationship regardless of what you decide to call. Contracts are like an interface, you are setting up an agreement on what is being provided and don't care about the implementation. When you constrain the contract so much that only a single person can fulfill the contract you are just abusing the conc…

Absolutely no. The client needs to agree on the other person that is doing the work instead of you. They will need to check that they have the qualifications and they will need to know who is handling sensitive data. It’s even valid for the IR35 rule. The important thing is that someone else can do the job upon agreement, but you will never find in any contract for a serious company/institution that you can pass on your job covertly.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#387

Post by anonnel »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #313
anonnel wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you think your boss is lying to you, go find a new boss. That statement seems completely disconnected from reality. Not the part about going to find something better, because that is (usually) possible. But managers regularly and transparently lie. It sounds like you’re a boss, so I think you haven’t had to experience this for too long and have probably forgotten it. Also, try not to be so gung ho on declaring w…

>managers regularly and transparently lie There are those that do, and they have to handle the consequences of that. >It sounds like you’re a boss, so I think you haven’t had to experience this for too long and have probably forgotten it. I am, but I also have one myself. I am also fully aware of how dysfunctional organisations can become when they don't value honesty and integrity. >Also, try not to be so gung ho on…

There are many, the majority I would say. But I’m not defending dishonesty in the least.

It does seem supercilious though, declaring yourself to be so honorable while basically bragging (it seems to me) about firing people.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#388

Post by Iv »

I am not sure why she feels it shows such a glaring hole in their recruitment process? Interviews and CVs are extremely vulnerable to lying. The only step in the process to catch liars is exactly what she did: be a bit paranoid about references.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#389

Post by Steeeve »

raesene9 wrote: post #385
Steeeve wrote: post #348

It's strange to me how much linkedin is valued in silicon valley because to me it's like the ugly stepsister of social networking. Expecting someone to have a fully built out profile and expecting that person to actively seek out contacts in their own company is strange. I typically seek out contacts either when I first meet them or not at all. The only rhyme or reason to when I do it is when I happen to have a reaso…

I'm not really surprised at how heavily linkedin is used. It's an easy check for companies to carry out, so they'll make use of it. As a candidate spending a bit of time connecting to people on Linkedin can help your chances of finding a role, so why not do it? Obviously, some people will have other better avenues of getting roles, but it's one avenue that can be used. Personally I've never used Linkedin to find a ro…

I suppose I phrased things a bit harshly. I see value in LinkedIn from a candidate/networking perspective. From a validation/reference perspective is where I see the issue.

This isn't the first I've heard of using it for back-channel references. I think that is pretty common in the bay area.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#390

Post by f4stjack »

The thing I don't get is, and probably I'll be downvoted to hell because of that, even though this guy lied about his past, his knowledge is solid. Nobody can guess what the interviewers will ask you and from what I've read from the text he aced those.

If this is the tech business rolls what I see that it wants developers with a history, with connections, with "clout" so to speak; doesn't matter if you can help their business immensely, or fit to the position they are listing for. And this attitude is really really paradoxical. Like you are not searching for a candidate with required skillset but an ideal candidate with required skillset with glowing references. Because why take the risk? Like having a glowing history prevents anything happening...

Anyway imho what you are trying to gauge from a job interview is how good that guy/gal is. And I'm sure if that guy did say "I am an newly trained man with no relevant job history" he wouldn't go into the interview stage even though he knows his stuff for his application. I mean if he failed that, I'd say "okay this guy is trying to scam this company" but no, he is able and informed about the position he is applying to. And that's totally irrelevant from the text I am reading. Which is bonkers if you pardon my french.

This text also reminded me of a quote from Neil Gaiman, he faked his references for his first job and then he worked to create those references(https://singjupost.com/full-transcript-neil-gaiman-commencem...). In his words he was "chronologically challenged". So if he was trying to be a writer in our modern times, we wouldn't have a Neil Gaiman.

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