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Curry spice turmeric boosts memory by nearly 30%, eases depression, study finds

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Re: Curry spice turmeric boosts memory by nearly 30%, eases depression, study finds

#381

Post by vanderZwan »

philipodonnell wrote: post #380
vanderZwan wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What annoys me as a someone not trained in statistics is that these discussions are always abstract in-principle arguments about what proper statistics should be like. Meanwhile, we have a real paper with real p-values , why not discuss the validity of that? > SRT Consistent Long-Term Retrieval improved with curcumin (ES = 0.63, p = 0.002) but not with placebo (ES = 0.06, p = 0.8; between-group: ES = 0.68, p = 0.05).…

I know you want this to be true given your stated disatisfication with the current state of attention deficit medication, and I know that arguing about statistics seems pointless, but this is n=40 (21 test 19 control). No matter how good your p-values are or how many different tests you run, there's just nothing to take away from this right now. That is not to say its worthless. If there are a number of repeated simi…

Yeah, I'm aware of my own bias. But maybe I phrased myself badly: it's not that I think that arguing about statistics is pointless, it's that this discussion often feels like it becomes disconnected from the paper at hand.

The replies to my complaint are nice counterexamples of that, though.

Re: Curry spice turmeric boosts memory by nearly 30%, eases depression, study finds

#382

Post by philipodonnell »

vanderZwan wrote: post #381
philipodonnell wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you want this to be true given your stated disatisfication with the current state of attention deficit medication, and I know that arguing about statistics seems pointless, but this is n=40 (21 test 19 control). No matter how good your p-values are or how many different tests you run, there's just nothing to take away from this right now. That is not to say its worthless. If there are a number of repeated simi…

Yeah, I'm aware of my own bias. But maybe I phrased myself badly: it's not that I think that arguing about statistics is pointless, it's that this discussion often feels like it becomes disconnected from the paper at hand. The replies to my complaint are nice counterexamples of that, though.

Most discussions about research findings are like that and HN is probably no exception. :-)

"The sample size is too small" or "they didn't control for [x] effect" are the sort of gut armchair comments people make offhand, knowing it probably applies to any study if you get challenged. I assume that's the sentiment you reacted to and I agree it can be frustrating.

Re: Curry spice turmeric boosts memory by nearly 30%, eases depression, study finds

#383

Post by ksk »

_mbr6 wrote: post #364
ksk wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more extreme statement is that those texts have any value. Lets start with that first.

You're making some very, very broad, blanket statements about vast swaths of human experience and recorded wisdom (hint: that usually doesn't work out so well - nuance is our friend!). But, to play along, in attempt to affirm or deny this - let's start with what you mean by "those texts". Which texts, specifically, are you referring to, when you say that they contain absolutely zero applicable content to the care of…

>You're making some very, very broad, blanket statements about vast swaths of human experience and recorded wisdom (hint: that usually doesn't work out so well - nuance is our friend!).

I don't know about you, but when I read about applying dung into my wounds, I kinda lose interest in the remaining 4000 pages, and also happily forgo the 'ward off evil spirits' bonus that it brings.

>Which texts, specifically, are you referring to, when you say that they contain absolutely zero applicable content to the care of modern humans? (Where I'm paraphrasing your statement: "There is no medical wisdom in any of the old texts (from any culture) that are relevant in 2018").

Your paraphrasing is out of context. I am speaking about medical knowledge. Our knowledge has improved, but our flaws still remain. In other non-medical contexts, a lot of things would still apply.

Back to your counter point.

>the plant Artemesia Annua was recorded approximately 2500 years ago in traditional Chinese medical herbal texts as being an effective treatment for the disease known as malaria. The 2015 Nobel Prize in Medicine and Physiology was awarded to the chemist who used this specific information from these texts to aid in the discovery of a compound that is now the defacto treatment for this disease.

While that maybe be what is being reported it is not even close to the truth. The texts don't say "here's how to treat malaria". They don't even know what malaria actually is or how it works or anything about it. Traditional medicine applied a 'throw shit to the wall' approach (common in ancient times) to treat fevers using hundreds of different herbs. None of these actually worked, because there was no knowledge of what was causing those fevers (parasite/virus/disease etc). This is also why we don't treat malaria by giving someone a cup of herbal tea - it doesn't work.

What was a world record for a marathon a hundred years ago is barely the qualifying time for the Boston marathon in 2018. So yeah, The Chinese, Egyptians, Indians, etc all had their own world records. Its time to let them go. I prefer to take my medical science from the time when we know the most about the human body, not when we knew the least. You can make your own choice.

Re: Curry spice turmeric boosts memory by nearly 30%, eases depression, study finds

#384

Post by andrewjl »

sov wrote: post #236
andrewjl wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What prevents researchers from running studies like these on the order of thousands of individuals, as opposed to 40 or 100?

A lot of things that basically boil down to budget, optimization and space available. If you have a drug that you believe you can show a strong effect with the effect group at ~15 people, maybe you run the trial with 40 (15 e.g., 15 control, plus wiggle room for drop-outs over the 18-month course and extra certainty). Check the last few paragraphs--"The authors thank Shayna Greenberg, Dev Darshan Khalsa, and Anya Ros…

For the recruitment, data management, and study coordination piece, sounds like a great area to optimize with software. I'm sure big pharma will also happily shell out for something to help them manage their own clinical trials. Academia PIs can then get the same stuff at a lower rate.

Edit: Heck, you can even lease top grade medical space in all major metro areas and offer it as part of the package in a WeWork style arrangement. I'm sure they are tons of nuances to rolling something like this out, but it sounds like it can cut costs substantially.

Re: Curry spice turmeric boosts memory by nearly 30%, eases depression, study finds

#385

Post by kumarvvr »

hondo77 wrote: post #363
kumarvvr wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im from India. Whenever I get a throat infection, my grandmother gives be a spoonful of turmeric powder mixed with very hot milk, no sugar. Till date, it has not failed once to cure the inflammation/infection/pain. The infection is gone within a day or atmost a couple of days.

> The infection is gone within a day or atmost a couple of days. As they usually do on their own.

Yes. However for me, when not using the turmeric milk thing, it lasts upto a week. There was a clear reduction in the time it took for the infection to subside. Now I am not saying this is proof that it's a magic medicine. Just an observation.

It could as well be a placebo effect.

Re: Curry spice turmeric boosts memory by nearly 30%, eases depression, study finds

#386

Post by CuriouslyC »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #370
CuriouslyC wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only is there strong anecdotal evidence for legume consumption being healthy given the prevalence of legumes in blue zone diets, there is also a mountain of scientific evidence indicating the short chain fatty acids produced by fermentation of legume polysaccharides provides a large number of health benefits. Additionally, low fat non-greek yogurt consumption has been linked to a variety of positive health outcom…

Notice you say fermented legumes. There may be a place for them, but the jury is still out on that. Low fat yogurt often contains sugar for flavoring (out of necessity due to removing both it's natural flavoring, and as a byproduct, a lot of it's nutritional value), so that's out altogether. In addition, scaremongering fat has no scientific basis, and is generally frowned upon by anyone that is actually following sci…

Legumes are automatically fermented by the bacteria in your gut, that's why they make you gassy. There's a ton of science on short chain fatty production by gut biota having beneficial health effects. I'd go so far as to say high fermentable fiber intake is the most important aspect of a healthy diet.

Greek yogurt is marginally better than non-strained yogurt, but you can make regular yogurt at home for a few dollars a gallon while greek yogurt is pricey.

You demonize sugar, but it is only a problem for sedentary people who overeat. The problem is that monosaccharides are reactive molecules, and they can participate in harmful chemical reactions if floating free in the blood. If (liver) glycogen is depleted then those monosaccharides are polymerized into glycogen before they can enter circulation, and they are essentially harmless. If you're active don't eat too much moderate amounts of sugar are fine.

As for your "no" comment regarding my training advice, I'm 220lbs and ripped at 6ft. tall. I've deadlifted 600lbs for reps at nearly 40 years old. All of this without drugs. What have you accomplished?

Re: Curry spice turmeric boosts memory by nearly 30%, eases depression, study finds

#387

Post by electrograv »

dumbneurologist wrote: post #308
randomsearch wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with “is this true?” Investigations is that there are tons of potential pitfalls and a combination of experimental limitations, poor academic incentives, and insufficient statistical and scientific training make this very hard to do well. I think it’s bad science, that will one day retrospectively be viewed as invalid scientific method. I think the way to combat this is to avoid studies that solely attemp…

there are tons of potential pitfalls and a combination of experimental limitations you provided some, which are at least partially addressed by the study design. (I don't think it's your point, but let me agree that "the scientist can cheat" is always true). poor academic incentives, this is addressed because it is double-blind insufficient statistical and scientific training this is (partially) addressed by peer rev…

>> I think it’s bad science, that will one day retrospectively be viewed as invalid scientific method.

> that's a claim without any evidence to back it [u]p.

You are correct. The irony is rich here.

I always welcome a good argument (whether in dispute or affirmation of an issue), but just saying "I think " doesn't make it so. Reading through this thread, all I see is the common HN Default Skepticism / Negativity -- but more so; skepticism with less scientific rigor than the work being criticized.

Re: Curry spice turmeric boosts memory by nearly 30%, eases depression, study finds

#388

Post by martingoodson »

dumbneurologist wrote: post #377
martingoodson wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The power is only relevant when you fail to detect an effect. This is absolutely false. Small, low-powered studies are more likely to produce false results than larger studies. This was well-documented by John Ioannidis over ten years ago, in work that should be required reading for all publishing scientists: http://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/jou...

This is addressed by pre-trial registration. You can't have publication bias (his argument) when you register the study and see that this is the only one.

I know this is a dead thread: I'm answering because if you are a clinician you need to know that your understanding of the statistics is incorrect. This statistical effect has nothing to do with publication bias. If you want to continue the discussion please email me and I can explain and give copious references which will show you why.

Re: Curry spice turmeric boosts memory by nearly 30%, eases depression, study finds

#389

Post by dharma1 »

quickpost wrote: post #265
buyx wrote: post #199

I’m wary about where I source my turmeric from, because of Lead Chromate contamination: https://www.bu.edu/sph/2017/04/04/high-levels-of-lead-detect...

Have any suggestions on the best sources to avoid this type of contamination?

Buy organic turmeric or grow your own. It's crazy that some Asian growers add lead on purpose - https://www.naturalstacks.com/blogs/news/is-your-turmeric-co...

Re: Curry spice turmeric boosts memory by nearly 30%, eases depression, study finds

#390

Post by always_good »

reubenswartz wrote: post #30

Don't know about the study-- it seems interesting but like more research is needed-- but I do know that if you throw a little turmeric on your broccoli or cauliflower or whatever, before you roast, the veggies come out extra delicious. My kids will even eat them without complaining. ;-)

Yeah, it's just a good, mild spice that turns food a beautiful golden color from rice to lentils. Health benefits would be a cool bonus but the vegetables you put them on are more obviously healthy anyways.
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