Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 449 posts

Re: Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

#381

Post by naravara »

wallace_f wrote: post #309
naravara wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most jobs don't care - it's technology that's unusual. TBH I am far more likely to hire an English major with demonstrated technical skills than a technical person with a purely technical education. Learning the technical skills to live up to the expectations of an entry level software or coding job is just not that hard for a decently smart person. I want to see evidence that you can think more broadly too rather…

To be fair, I graduated from a good uni with honors, so not to say this out of spite, but in my experience this evidence you speak of--in non-technical courses--says more about whether the prof liked you and you stuck to affirming or regurgitating their ideas. Additionally hearsay is one of the worst kinds of evidence, scientifically speaking. I wish there was more development into standardized testing... People pret…

>says more about whether the prof liked you and you stuck to affirming or regurgitating their ideas.

My best classes were the ones where the professors and I came from wildly different places. There are bad profs, but in my experience it is pretty uncommon for professors to actually want to see you regurgitating their ideas. Moreover, most of my grading was done by TA's anyway so it's not even like the prof's take was relevant since the TA's have their own agendas.

More often the fact is that, undergraduates (and many graduate level students) suck at properly arguing their point. It’s not their fault really, they’re just less experienced at building a case, operating under a time and space constraint, and less knowledgable about the topic than the person grading them.

And when you’re being contrarian (going against your professor’s thinking) you’re likely to suck even more than usual because your professor hasn’t spoon fed you an acceptable conclusion, a cogent argument leading up to it, and first principles that they agree with to build an argument from.

>People pretend profs are altruistic and stop acting like people when they become profs.

Who exactly do you think would be designing (and thereby imputing their biases into) these standardized tests?

Re: Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

#382

Post by hannofcart »

zaccus wrote: post #367
soVeryTired wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say it used to be true in software. Try repeating that achievement starting out today. You'll be lucky to get any sort of tech job at all.

I started learning to code in 2011 when I was 28. I've been steadily employed in this industry for over 5 years now. I have a music degree.

You should try applying for CSO at Equifax. There is soon going to be an opening available for that role and it looks like you have the necessary qualifications.

Re: Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

#383

Post by Balgair »

hashberry wrote: post #190
_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #14

With companies no longer requesting university degrees, online learning (like watching Harvard courses) becoming more popular and in some countries university being outragous expensive, the future of universities is bleak because people will stop going there. And that of acadamics teaching is even worse. The internet will cut all middleman, and teachers being the middleman between you and knowledge, or gatekeepers to…

University degrees are a form of social signaling. It's a status symbol. I've met many self-taught developers with liberal arts degree from top ranked schools. I have no doubt their degrees helped them get their foot in the door and job hop and advance in their career.

True, but the 'credentialing' is becoming less and less valuable, ie. more credentialing is needed. I've had industry people looking to hire from our department (BioEng) come to our classrooms and tell us that a MSBE is a entry level requirement both in terms of pay and hierarchy. Not just one, but a few of them have one this.

It is not enough to just have a BS/BA in a STEMy field, you need the MS as well. I think it's fair to conclude that the credentialing is then worth less at the undergrad level.

Re: Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

#384

Post by mywittyname »

kd0amg wrote: post #147
aswanson wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are compsci phds in high demand in academia, or do they suffer the same oversupply condition as the general professorial market?

There is less of an oversupply because it's easier for CS PhDs to just go to industry (possibly in a non-research position) than it is in a lot of other fields, but I think it's still unrealistic to expect every CS PhD who seeks a tenure-track position to find one.

Actually, I would think it would be easier to get a tenure track professorship as a CS PhD. The number of CS-related grant opportunities is staggering.

Re: Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

#385

Post by alexanderstears »

kbenson wrote: post #333
alexanderstears wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there's a problem with how that stuff is bundled. I went to a school that lavished money on its sports programs (at least relative to the team's performance) and many of the sports programs were supported (in part) by mandatory student fees. If I had the option to go to the school without paying for the team, I would have certainly done so. Though the school was still 'worth it' but dang it, I could have had more…

> But there's a problem with how that stuff is bundled. Sure. I wasn't endorsing the system, just explaining it as I see it. > schools have to make sports programs accessible to women and men ... might be a better allocation of resources if they simply opened teams to both sexes rather than creating sexually differentiated teams. I think that only works in a world where women and men are both physically capable equal…

I don't see it the same way, sure the power of the purse and all but if the Federal Government can't coerce states to follow immigration law as a condition of accepting some federal grants, we may as well say that the feds can't tie money to behavior and just let the chips fall where they may.

I get that women and men have different physical capabilities but why split it on gender? Why not split it on race? There isn't much racial equity in some sports, apparently some races can't compete as well as others and the demographics speak for themselves. Better yet, why not split sports by work ethic? I'd be more inclined to do sports if I could play with people who are similarly disinterested and the status quo isn't very accessible to me: a person who over eats, sleeps in, and forgets rules. I'm sure we can map that to a disparate impact somewhere.

Or ignore the discussion entirely and say "we'll let colleges decide how to handle their sports programs".

Re: Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

#386

Post by Boothroid »

chrisseaton wrote: post #163
khawkins wrote: post #83

The fact that the article features an English professor is unsurprising. This is a supply-side problem--liberal arts degrees are in relatively low demand, but institutions continue to graduate students at unsustainable levels. No one is telling the students that they're spending 4-12 years getting an education which is worth less than what they're paying for it. For the most part, the only jobs that hire for English…

> For the most part, the only jobs that hire for English and other liberal-arts degrees are universities and schools This is such nonsense. Most jobs don't care what degree you have as long as you have a degree, and with an English degree you can apply for 90% of jobs. You could graduate and go on to be anything from an advertising executive, to a soldier. Most jobs don't care - it's technology that's unusual.

From my viewpoint this stopped being the case in the UK around 20 years ago, not coincidentally around the exact same time that the numbers of graduates started rising considerably year on year. It's a simple case of supply and demand. If you went to a top uni, have contacts or are genuinely oustanding then great, you probably have the luxury of being able to walk into a decent job from nearly any degree, but if not you are competing with tens of thousands of other graduates for the remaining decent jobs. So how do you make yourself stand out? I'd suggest that a CV that shows no evidence of interest in the field before graduation is not a terribly good differentiator. Far better to have studied something related or at least have gained some work experience in the area rather than look like every other grad that's graduated and thought oh shit, must find a job, any job..

Re: Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

#387

Post by SilasX »

Top19 wrote: post #242
rayiner wrote: post #202

If someone had written an article about struggling actors turning to sex work and sleeping in cars, nobody would blink an eye. Acting pays little for the same reason being an academic pays little. Lots of people want to do it, but there is limited demand, hence only the really exceptional folks make any money doing it. Obviously, people shouldn't need to sleep in cars. But the answer to that is a basic income. It's n…

I want to comment that academics provide such an incredible amount to the world we live in. In a time of bullshit thought leaders and companies like Equifax who will tell you obvious lies, the academic discipline with its rigor, criticalness, and policing against self-promotion is a kind of last-bastion for intellect in the West. And even that is sort of cracking. BTW one country has already tried the “you can only g…

>I want to comment that academics provide such an incredible amount to the world we live in.

So does water, but that doesn't make it valuable; relevant question is the value of one more teacher. Given the extreme oversupply, the answer is "not much". Markets are speaking; it's up to workers to listen.

To be sure, you can make the case that academia is underfunded for these roles; but I estimate that you'd have to spend like a fourth of GDP to get a reasonable salary for every qualified academic who wants to do that. See this previous HN discussion on the matter:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12566996

Re: Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

#389

Post by [deleted] »

naravara wrote: post #381
wallace_f wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, I graduated from a good uni with honors, so not to say this out of spite, but in my experience this evidence you speak of--in non-technical courses--says more about whether the prof liked you and you stuck to affirming or regurgitating their ideas. Additionally hearsay is one of the worst kinds of evidence, scientifically speaking. I wish there was more development into standardized testing... People pret…

>says more about whether the prof liked you and you stuck to affirming or regurgitating their ideas. My best classes were the ones where the professors and I came from wildly different places. There are bad profs, but in my experience it is pretty uncommon for professors to actually want to see you regurgitating their ideas. Moreover, most of my grading was done by TA's anyway so it's not even like the prof's take wa…

[deleted]

Re: Facing poverty, academics turn to sex work and sleeping in cars

#390

Post by SilasX »

rayiner wrote: post #202

If someone had written an article about struggling actors turning to sex work and sleeping in cars, nobody would blink an eye. Acting pays little for the same reason being an academic pays little. Lots of people want to do it, but there is limited demand, hence only the really exceptional folks make any money doing it. Obviously, people shouldn't need to sleep in cars. But the answer to that is a basic income. It's n…

The actor comparison is pretty insightful, as a lot of the same dynamics apply:

- There are far more qualified people than could ever be eaten up by the demand for them.

- In practice, most workers of this type can't make it their only job.

- Though a small fraction at the top are extremely well compensated.

- Unionization can allow workers to capture more of the surplus (and has, for actors), but the oversupply is so extreme that it still wouldn't make the job a viable career path for the typical qualified applicant.

My previous HN exchange on this point: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10964421

Post reply on HN