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Cutting your salary by 40%

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Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#381

Post by the_cat_kittles »

brooklyn_ashey wrote: post #352
the_cat_kittles wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"requires" is an interesting word. i think you can get away with being a robot, but you are basically saying that no classical musicians are creative, which is laughable. you can improvise dynamics, tone, articulation, phrasing, tempo... its not just the pitches man!

as a lifelong, professional classical and jazz musician, I can tell you that the current state of both very closely mirrors the current state for swe, it is just that swe's seem to have to go through what we have been through, just faster. There was a time in classical music and jazz, and even pop, when creativity was sought after. this time is no more. Classical/jazz has become a robotic craft in search of technical…

good post. its funny, im a musician too. i decided the conservatory could fuck off after 1 year. ive found gypsy jazz a breath of fresh air personally... wonderful people and spirit, tons of gigs, technical virtuosity to the extreme, AND even some truly creative players. i do agree the paralells are strong esp between jazz people and swe. i dont know, you probably are further on your musical journey, but, i feel like complaining that creativity isnt present in music just means your hanging with the wrong people. in any case, a fun read, thanks

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#382

Post by alexasmyths »

_m96l wrote: post #316
adambmedia wrote: post #222

I often think about Arthur Rubenstein, the phenom mid-century pianist, for whom a lot has been written about his mission in early life to "practice as little as possible." There's a lot of hyped up romanticism in these quotes and anyone who plays at his level has spent a lifetime playing piano, period. Regardless, his guidance about spontaneity, creativity, and the relationship to practicing too much, which I equate…

There's simply no relation between the constant death-march described in this article and "practice" in the sense of personal improvement and skill-building. In fact, they're antithetical. Even the strongest advocates of "practice makes perfect" doctrines, such as Anders Ericsson, talk about something called deliberate practice , which is an expertly designed regiment, requiring exhausting mental and physical effort,…

I don't really agree.

Practice is important for building skills, and for knowing the piece.

The point is that you should be able to play the piece like you know how to walk.

Imagine: if you had do 'think' about walking, about every step, you would walk unnaturally. You'd certainly not be able to swatter.

When you can play as you walk - then - you can loosen up, and focus on having fun, making it creative i.e. have swagger. The actual notes are mundane, like walking, then the music can come out. If you have to think about it, it needs more practice.

Also - 'work' is not 'music'. Most of work is not practice, it's building stuff.

A carpenter who worked 1/2 days would probably get just about only 1/2 done, for example. I know tech is not quite the same, but it's mostly similar. We are not solving complex math problems, most of tech is mundane.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#383

Post by spraak »

Ascetik wrote: post #10

To add to this, I recently got let go from my job 2 weeks ago . With that said, my boss routinely tried to guilt trip me because I didn't want to work more than 40hrs a week. I have 2 very small children and my wife is pregnant, I can't spend all my time working, nor do I have any desire to. There were a few times I put in a couple of 60hr weeks, but that was only to appease him, not because I felt it was necessary.…

Are you currently in need of employment? It's hard with little ones and pregnancy! Let us know if you need some help networking...

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#384

Post by alexasmyths »

perpetualcrayon wrote: post #304

I had an interesting experience in this regard. I was hired by a company who had a small team of developers. When I first arrived it was obvious they had built a culture of "work until you drop". Not because anyone above them was pushing it (at least I don't think so), but they seemed to enjoy "being heroes". Granted, from my perspective it appeared they needed to be heroes in the first place because they had accumul…

I was in that situation as well.

Being 10 years older than the rest of the crew, sadly I believe they simply perceived me as 'old'.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#385

Post by anitil »

jcadam wrote: post #298
s73ver_ wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope the rest of your team is doing so, too. Companies like that don't deserve good employees.

Oh, yea. Although, this sort of thing is actually fairly common for my industry (defense contracting), so I'm not sure any of us will end up anyplace better.

The funny thing is, if you just eat the cost, any halfway conscientious worker is going to pay it back in kind. Maybe a few extra hours here or there, maybe a little bit more emotional investment in the work.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#386

Post by alexasmyths »

Ascetik wrote: post #10

To add to this, I recently got let go from my job 2 weeks ago . With that said, my boss routinely tried to guilt trip me because I didn't want to work more than 40hrs a week. I have 2 very small children and my wife is pregnant, I can't spend all my time working, nor do I have any desire to. There were a few times I put in a couple of 60hr weeks, but that was only to appease him, not because I felt it was necessary.…

To be fair, I would expect people to 'check in' on vacation as well.

Not every day - but if you have real responsibilities - others may depend on you.

I know it's not ideal ... but in a 'week off' I'll glance at my emails every few days, and maybe once or twice fire off a little note. That little note can make a huge difference to the machine.

Unless I plan to be 'in Rome' or whatever, in which case I would plan ahead, confer and make sure there was no reason anyone needed me and they knew I could not be reached.

But those expectations should be set.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#387

Post by tomrod »

alexasmyths wrote: post #386
Ascetik wrote: post #10

To add to this, I recently got let go from my job 2 weeks ago . With that said, my boss routinely tried to guilt trip me because I didn't want to work more than 40hrs a week. I have 2 very small children and my wife is pregnant, I can't spend all my time working, nor do I have any desire to. There were a few times I put in a couple of 60hr weeks, but that was only to appease him, not because I felt it was necessary.…

To be fair, I would expect people to 'check in' on vacation as well. Not every day - but if you have real responsibilities - others may depend on you. I know it's not ideal ... but in a 'week off' I'll glance at my emails every few days, and maybe once or twice fire off a little note. That little note can make a huge difference to the machine. Unless I plan to be 'in Rome' or whatever, in which case I would plan ahea…

> To be fair, I would expect people to 'check in' on vacation as well.

Your expectation is unwarranted. If your company can't let employees off for a week or two without checking in, I suggest the management style and staffing levels be checked. Your employees need these breaks to attend to mental stress, and adding to their stress by expecting availability during their time off should be re-evaluated.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#388

Post by Retric »

_m96l wrote: post #316
adambmedia wrote: post #222

I often think about Arthur Rubenstein, the phenom mid-century pianist, for whom a lot has been written about his mission in early life to "practice as little as possible." There's a lot of hyped up romanticism in these quotes and anyone who plays at his level has spent a lifetime playing piano, period. Regardless, his guidance about spontaneity, creativity, and the relationship to practicing too much, which I equate…

There's simply no relation between the constant death-march described in this article and "practice" in the sense of personal improvement and skill-building. In fact, they're antithetical. Even the strongest advocates of "practice makes perfect" doctrines, such as Anders Ericsson, talk about something called deliberate practice , which is an expertly designed regiment, requiring exhausting mental and physical effort,…

A type of deliberate practice only relates to a specific skill. Normal work programming has little impact on interviewing or competitive programming skills.

However, it is very relevant to getting better at exactly those specific kinds of things the company is working on.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#389

Post by Retric »

alexasmyths wrote: post #382
_m96l wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's simply no relation between the constant death-march described in this article and "practice" in the sense of personal improvement and skill-building. In fact, they're antithetical. Even the strongest advocates of "practice makes perfect" doctrines, such as Anders Ericsson, talk about something called deliberate practice , which is an expertly designed regiment, requiring exhausting mental and physical effort,…

I don't really agree. Practice is important for building skills, and for knowing the piece. The point is that you should be able to play the piece like you know how to walk. Imagine: if you had do 'think' about walking, about every step, you would walk unnaturally. You'd certainly not be able to swatter. When you can play as you walk - then - you can loosen up, and focus on having fun, making it creative i.e. have sw…

A programmer can usually average ~4 hours of focused highly productive work where they are not on Hacker News etc per day. Fewer people can do that kind of focused effort for ~8 hours a day regularly. I have never met someone that can do that kind of highly focused effort for ~12 hour days.

That does not mean highly focused effort is the only valid type of work. But, it is very valuable for most programming jobs.

Further, cutting back hours often increases productivity even if you spend the same amount of time in the office.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#390

Post by vacri »

billforsternz wrote: post #341
jcadam wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pfft. A man-hour of labor is a man-hour of labor. Which is why I fully understand why my employer is requiring me (and the others on my team) to make up the 48 hours of labor I lost when I evacuated due to Hurricane Irma (even though the office was of course closed for much of that time). I'm spending the extra hours perusing/posting on HN and looking at job listings :|

I enjoyed this +1 but sadly and inevitably there are replies saying essentially "no no, all man hours are not equal". Why doesn't the intertube get satire/sarcasm/irony ?

Text is a bad way of conveying tone, though there was the smiley at the end. I interpreted it the same as you, but I can see how a lot of people would miss the tone.

Poe's Law is why the internet doesn't get sarcasm - that without additional information, it's impossible to differentiate between an extreme position and one mocking it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

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