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Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

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Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#381

Post by rad88 »

dingo_bat wrote: post #364
meddlepal wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're about 1 security breach away from Twitter becoming a serious national security issue. I hope Trump has 2FA to login, but if someone got past Twitters internal system and started tweeting as DT then really bad Shit could happen.

I would hope Twitter has taken extraordinary steps to secure the US president's account.

The account for sure. I wonder about everything else though? Maybe it's naive but it seems like you could create a "presidential" tweet anywhere from their DBs to their CDNs.

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#382

Post by pitstopottery »

mabbo wrote: post #19

If Google were actually serious about Net Neutrality, they would use their insane market power to protect it. How? Well, a simple statement saying "any ISP who abuses net neutrality will have their customers cut off from Google products". No Google search, no YouTube, no Gmail. Have those requests instead redirect to a website telling the customer what their ISP is doing, why Google won't work with them, and how to c…

Google isn't about Net Neutrality. They're about profit. If it's more profitable to be with NetNeutral then they will choose it. If it's more profitable to be with Cable,Att, etc... they will go that route.

Google can be sued and dismantled if they don't focus on profit for their major shareholders. It's not as much Google and their CEO, as it is how the US' pseudo-capitalist dictatorship operates.

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#383

Post by thegayngler »

ucaetano wrote: post #151
mabbo wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this proposal is antithetical to the concept of network neutrality Exactly the point I'm trying to make. If Google turns around and says "Fine, you don't like net neutrality? Let me show you how this works both ways". The ISPs do not make the product, they sell the access to the product. If the product goes away, then they aren't selling anything at all- and their customers will stop paying them.

You talk like customers actually have a choice in ISP...

Umm there is always a choice as to wether or not you want to use a good or a service.

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#384

Post by unityByFreedom »

valuearb wrote: post #336
unityByFreedom wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What has any ISP done that would violate Net Neutrality that I would object to? Here's a list: https://www.freepress.net/blog/2017/04/25/net-neutrality-vio... Excuse me for being blunt, but you're being willfully ignorant if you ask this question. A simple Google search of the exact wording of your question reveals this [1] > "Internet providers have attempted to throttle traffic by type or by user (Comcast in 2007…

Thanks for the first link, it's a pretty good summary of the arguments for. My question would be why don't most of those fall under fraud statutes. The second link is the example of crap I've read about the issue that never resonated with me, please don't tell why arguments against are bad, tell me why I need it the the first place. And calling me "willfully ignorant" is a good example of why net neutrality has faile…

> Thanks for the first link, it's a pretty good summary of the arguments for. My question would be why don't most of those fall under fraud statutes.

Because they're not fraud unless we make laws regulating such behavior. And, lawmaking can begin with setting proper FCC policy.

> And calling me "willfully ignorant" is a good example of why net neutrality has failed to get wider support. I'm a full-time developer, I do read a lot about a lot of issues, but I'm also busy with a full life.

Dude, if you're a developer, I'm not going to let you off the hook so easily. You should be familiar with the arguments, both for and against. Whether you agree with one side or the other is up to you-but you should at least be aware of the issues.

I'm sure you've told someone to Google answers to a simple question before. This is no different. I got those links by Googling your question.

Generally speaking, the concise arguments are to spread awareness among non-tech folks. They are a dumbed down version of the details. The old CP Grey video is good [1], as are recent graphics showing what could realistically happen [2].

[1] https://youtu.be/wtt2aSV8wdw

[2] https://i.redd.it/ehh1nypob79z.jpg

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#385

Post by prawn »

ambicapter wrote: post #6

This has been the weakest day of action I could imagine. I thought sites were going to be throttled. Turns out its just some color changes and, oh, reddit has a fancy "slow-loading" gif for their website name. A real wake-up call!

They're hedging their bets. They don't want to alienate half their audience, so they make a token show for the minority that care, and leave it at that.

Also, isn't it likely that the largest companies would benefit most if they were in a position to pay for priority over small upstart competitors?

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#386

Post by unityByFreedom »

pheldagryph wrote: post #298

I understand why tech companies and VCs want net neutrality. But this protest is what is wrong with Silicon Valley "culture". It's incredibly out of touch with reality. Are we really being asked to take this hill? Why? By whom? History will record the hundreds of thousands of children who will die of the current-and-present famine affecting East Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. It will only exacerbate the current, h…

How ironic. Without net neutrality, you might have more difficulty raising awareness about your cause of choice- famine. Yet, here you are railing against it.

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#387

Post by unityByFreedom »

peterashford wrote: post #188

As a New Zealander, I find it extraordinarily inappropriate that global infrastructure like the Internet is being shaped by the whims of US politics and corporate culture. The Internet is a global network of global concern and it should be above the manoeuvring of Republicans and American Internet providers

Well, a lot of websites are currently based in the US, and policies like this would hurt newer players. Over time, I'd expect more startups to be successful outside the US than inside.

I'm American and I also wish that this policy didn't impact the world but the fact is that the world is connected, and pollution made in one place will eventually drift and effect another place.

I don't want to overstate how big of a worldwide impact this policy would have, just pointing out it does have some. If anything, it's an opportunity for other countries to operate differently and attract top tech talent, sort of like France is trying to do.

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#388

Post by astronautjones »

greggman wrote: post #380
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just describing the official process. Having spent 14 years in the military I can tell you that it's more complex than just that. The entire point of the US command and control system is to guarantee that the President and only the President is capable of authorizing nuclear war whenever he needs to. Yes, legally and formally. Informally though, as I said, it won't go down like that, especially if it's not comp…

this is not my understanding. there is no such checking because in a real threat the president only has about 7 minutes until the enemies nukes fall from subs off the coast. to be a credible deterrent it has to be assumed he can order the launch in less time than that. if verification of unambiguous threat takes more time than that then the enemy can just nuke us confident we'll all be dead before our pres can get hi…

I think you're technically correct, but those arguing with you (particularly those that have served in the armed forces) might cite this as a counterpoint, it takes a lot for it to make it all the way up the chain -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#389

Post by astronautjones »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #324
avar wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Radiolab did an episode recently[1] which disagrees with that Bloomberg article. They interview ex-Secretary of Defense William Perry asking him what controls there are, if any, on a crazy president just willy-nilly deciding to nuke something. He says there's absolutely none, even if the president is in a room full of people who vehemently disagree with him he alone makes the call to launch. 1. http://www.radiolab.or…

Yes yes, but... The President can make the call to launch and everyone in the room can ignore him, arrest him, tape his mouth shut. Or just shoot him. Edit: fixed a word

Yeah, you'd think that if nothing else, our current governmental situation proves that all expected norms should now be discarded. If this dipshit can act this way w/o recompense, there's no reason that the rest of the chain of command should follow orders...

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#390

Post by astronautjones »

redy wrote: post #299
wwweston wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article you're citing appears to support the point it seems like you're trying to contradict -- it describes a system where the president is given explicit authority at every stage. There are opportunities for others to dissuade him, but he has every freedom to disregard them, and they have absolutely nothing in the way of legal power to stop him. The only check currently seems to be people disobeying his orders,…

Mutiny is likely. American officers in particular will tend not to follow orders to commit an obvious war crime. This isn't an extralegal check , it's very much legal. But the system will fail if "the whole chain is stupid." This is why it's so dangerous to have a President obsessed with loyalty.

Yes, and that's why we have so many obligatory legal oaths. It is kind of astonishing that Americans without the internet developed a pretty rigorous system so long ago - Joe Rogan (sorry) summarized it well when he said that smart people think they're smart, but they're actually just regurgitating things they've learned from truly genius people from past generations
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