Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

Post by ceejayoz » Thu, Mar 09, 2017, 2:42 AM UTC

mindcrime wrote: post #365

ceejayoz wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Using force / aggression (aka the government forcing you to do something) is a violation of your most fundamental rights, and strips you of your agency and dignity as a human being. So you assert, as if this were universally accepted. I assert being bankrupted or killed for want of affordable, accessible healthcare is a violation of my most fundamental rights, and strips me of agency and dignity as a human being.

I assert being bankrupted How is being bankrupted a violation of your rights? If anything, it would seem that it's the opposite, as it's your creditors who lose something that you had committed to repay them, no? affordable, accessible healthcare You have the right to purchase as much health-care as you can, based on some balance between what you want and can afford. But on what basis do you assert that the world owe…

Post by lutorm » Thu, Mar 09, 2017, 2:45 AM UTC

chimeracoder wrote: post #273

jahewson wrote: post #254

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Medicare reimbursement rates aren't necessarily too low if healthcare providers are currently overcharging. They could be perfectly be fair. But as long as healthcare providers can find someone else to overcharge then they'll do that rather than accepting Medicare patients.

> Medicare reimbursement rates aren't necessarily too low if healthcare providers are currently overcharging. They could be perfectly be fair. No, Medicare reimbursement rates are about 7% lower (in the aggregate, not individually) than COGS - the marginal costs of providing care. That is, if a test costs a provider $100 to purchase wholesale, Medicare reimburses $93, which doesn't cover the cost of the supplies, let…

Post by nikdaheratik » Thu, Mar 09, 2017, 2:49 AM UTC

surfmike wrote: post #61

old-gregg wrote: post #41

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Yes you can. As a 6th largest economy in the world [1] California can negotiate prices down by 50-60% to be comparable to Canada/UK. [2] Besides, the existing state program (medi-cal) already covers over 1/3 of CA residents [3]. So it looks like if we lower the cost by 60% we can get pretty close to normal healthcare situation using the existing budget. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states…

It sounds fanciful to say that we'll just use our existing Medi-cal budget but now it will cover everyone. If the government had so much bargaining power, then Medicare and Medi-cal would already have far smaller costs. We don't really see that. Also, who exactly, would we be negotiating with? I don't know that you can squeeze the budgets of hospitals in California by 50% and have everything carry on like normal.

Post by chimeracoder » Thu, Mar 09, 2017, 2:53 AM UTC

lutorm wrote: post #383

chimeracoder wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Medicare reimbursement rates aren't necessarily too low if healthcare providers are currently overcharging. They could be perfectly be fair. No, Medicare reimbursement rates are about 7% lower (in the aggregate, not individually) than COGS - the marginal costs of providing care. That is, if a test costs a provider $100 to purchase wholesale, Medicare reimburses $93, which doesn't cover the cost of the supplies, let…

If that's true, why does any single doctor in the entire country take Medicare patients then?

Post by refurb » Thu, Mar 09, 2017, 2:53 AM UTC

alexqgb wrote: post #331

refurb wrote: post #295

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To the contrary, far more people get access to the drug in question. There are plenty of drugs you can get in the US that single payers systems simply won't cover. The Cancer Fund in the UK is a great example. NHS said "nope too expensive" to several drugs so unless the Cancer Fund pays for it, you're SOL. That's how single payer systems save money. That's why pointing to the superior overall life-expectancy in other…

Part of the reason those drugs exist in the first place is that they've been engineered to extract the maximum amount of cash possible from our nightmare of a system. Yes, you may blow through your lifetime cap on one ailment, but the incentives are in place for pharma makers to see that as much of your cap ends up in their pockets, rather than the competitions. Treatments for Hepatitis-C are one of the more notoriou…