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Master Plan, Part Deux

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381–390 of 705 posts

Re: Master Plan, Part Deux

#381
Battery-powered trucks and buses seem like a logical next step, since there's not much competition there yet (save some obscure small players) and weight is less of an issue.

[I'd still like to own a fully autonomous mobile home that drives me to work while I am eating breakfast in my bath robe or taking a shower and then moves me to a beach while I'm sleeping on Friday nights. Well, one can hope, right?]

Re: Master Plan, Part Deux

#382
post #235

If I am on a self-driving car and it meets with an accident, there might be a case to be made against Tesla if I consider myself a very safe driver. Even though on an average self-driving might cause less casualties but that figure might not hold good compared to what my personal accident rate is. And this should be good enough for law enforcement to nail Tesla. I think, like everyone else, that Musk is probably the…

Will be fun to revisit your comment in 10 years

Re: Master Plan, Part Deux

#383
post #142

My points of skepticism: 1. Semis . A typical long haul semi gets well under 10MPG. In some cases not much more than half that. They are heavy and need a lot of energy to move. A Tesla Model S weighs 4650 lbs and has a range of a couple of hundred miles. A semi truck can weigh up to 80,000 lbs. That is a lot of weight to get rolling and a lot to pull up a grade. Semis spend a large part of their time driving at highw…

> Legal liability is one reason. As owner of the car, I am liable for damage it causes. So legal liability laws will have to change. This, at least in most of the United States, is not a correct statement of the law. Absent something like Negligent Entrustment[1] or Vicarious Liability[2], one's ownership of a vehicle does not determine if one is liable if damage is caused while another is operating the vehicle. Some…

I can't speak for everywhere, I'll admit. Where I live, the owner is responsible, as I have learned firsthand by involvement in several accident scenarios where the vehicle owner was not driving at the time. You must purchase insurance for each vehicle you own, and if you allow another person to drive your vehicle you retain the liability.

I'm sure there are some exceptions e.g. if your vehicle is stolen, or in cases of a clear contract such as a vehicle lease or rental.

Subject to the foregoing, it seems entirely reasonable that if I allow a random stranger to use my car while I'm at work, that is my decision and my responsibility. And I would not do it.

Re: Master Plan, Part Deux

#384
So how do we go work for Elon if we have particular expertise on the Solar and storage part - particularly in the way that he has mentioned here?

Re: Master Plan, Part Deux

#385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dense urban areas create anxiety for me, while suburbs give the nice quiet retreat with plenty of open space, and no random annoyances. I bet I'm not alone in this. Don't assume that your subjective personal experiences translate to everyone. Here's a question for you. If suburbs are "the least optimal configuration", then why did urban sprawl occur in the first place? Why did so many people leave the cities and soug…

Tragedy of the commons.

This would imply that there isn't enough space for everyone. Is that true, though? It feels like most dense concentrations of people are created artificially - either directly through borders (e.g. Haiti vs Dominican Republic), or indirectly through economic limitations (have to live close to where jobs are and commute is too expensive etc). If so, then this is a solvable problem.

One other point I wanted to address. One negative side of sprawl is how it affects natural environments - but, again, does it really have to, or do we do it just because it's the easiest and cheapest way to implement it? It feels like living less densely could actually be beneficial for the environment if done right, compared to the cities. Consider: a metropolis will always carve a chunk out of nature and replace it with a dense grid of roads around high rises, completely ruining the ecological system in the affected area - heck, our cities even have their own microclimates now, because of how much heat we pump out at once in a single place.

On the other hand, a single residence does not have a significant impact; and if you space them out sufficiently, you can preserve the original environment in that space between. Infrastructure is trickier and more invasive, but we've seen some trends towards more localization recently (e.g. with residential solar, composting etc).

Who knows, perhaps we can actually make this description from "The Diamond Age" a reality?

"The prevailing architecture here, among those who had not adopted neo-Victorian precepts, was distinctly subterranean; as if these people were somehow ashamed of their own humanity and could not bear to fell even a handful of the immense Douglas firs that marched monotonously up the tumbling slopes toward the frozen, sodden ridge of the Cascades. Even when it was half buried, a house wasn't even a proper house; it was an association of modules, scattered about here and there and connected by breezeways or tunnels."

Re: Master Plan, Part Deux

#386
post #346
post #64

"A first principles physics analysis of automotive production suggests that somewhere between a 5 to 10 fold improvement is achievable by version 3 on a roughly 2 year iteration cycle. The first Model 3 factory machine should be thought of as version 0.5, with version 1.0 probably in 2018." What that really means: Tesla is going to lose a ton of money per car on the Model 3, or raise the price, until at least 2022. T…

How about the employees at all of the subcontractors each of the incumbent manufacturers uses for completed components? Number of employees per car output is one metric meant to be a proxy for something else. Use it in a TED Talk or a newspaper editorial to make some larger point, since it is a compelling takeaway, but it's actually pretty meaningless on its own. Being boring, and looking at sustainable production co…

>> Number of employees per car output

It's a very important metric. The number of man-hours per item is a good stand-in for production costs. It isn't perfect, materials are outside the math here, but it works.

I'm interested to hear of how much staff time is put to new production/development and how much is dedicated to maintaining the current fleet. I have to believe that Toyota walks away in that area too.

Re: Master Plan, Part Deux

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say what you will about their "antiquated" business practices, but Ford consistently does one thing that Tesla never does: it turns a profit

Ford is subsidised by 100 million year-old bottled, well, barreled, sunlight. (Tesla's subsidised by lithium salt concentrations in Bolivia, but that's a rather smaller overall subsidy.)

Isn't Tesla also subsidized by the government?

Re: Master Plan, Part Deux

#388
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When ford came on the market, it only had to be better than a horse. A tesla has to be better than a masarati on the high end, a jaguar on the "medium" end, and a subaru on the "low" end.

That's not true. Other automakers existed before Ford; he had automotive competition. In what world is a Jaguar a "medium" end car? The high end Jaguars extend into Maserati territory. If Tesla wants to be better than a Maserati or Jaguar, they need to observe how much nicer the interiors of those cars are. Consumer Reports doesn't care about that above a certain level of basic competence, but a Maserati or Jaguar bu…

> If Tesla wants to be better than a Maserati or Jaguar, they need to observe how much nicer the interiors of those cars are.

Indeed. I was shocked when I first hitched a ride in a Model S – the interior is more spartan and cramped than that of a 90s Japanese keicar (an impressive feat, in a sense) apart from the entertainment system, which had an uglier, clunkier UI than what any web developer could have drawn you up in a week.

The sales rep's "oh don't worry about battery replacement cycles, nobody keeps a car for longer than five years anyway" statement was only the final nail in the coffin.

Re: Master Plan, Part Deux

#389

My points of skepticism: 1. Semis . A typical long haul semi gets well under 10MPG. In some cases not much more than half that. They are heavy and need a lot of energy to move. A Tesla Model S weighs 4650 lbs and has a range of a couple of hundred miles. A semi truck can weigh up to 80,000 lbs. That is a lot of weight to get rolling and a lot to pull up a grade. Semis spend a large part of their time driving at highw…

Maybe one way on trucking side would be do to things a bit differently. Instead of one tractor pulling the cargo from start to finish, use electric/autonomous vehicles on those parts of journey where they are the most efficient choice and leave the rest to diesel/humans. Like things are done in container world, where the same container can travel via different modes of transportation during its journey.

Re: Master Plan, Part Deux

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Legal liability is one reason. As owner of the car, I am liable for damage it causes. Ummm... Where the hell do you live where this is the case?

Where do you live that this is not the case? I know some states have (or had) a "no-fault" approach to automobile liability claims but I thought it was a minority and perhaps had been mostly abandonded? Who else would be responsible, if not the owner?

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