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Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

theguardian.com

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Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#381

Post by cm2187 »

firethief wrote: post #346
cm2187 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure that's true. Crime under totalitarian regimes is usually very low, because the level of control and delation makes it almost impossible to get away with it.

It makes sense that the general crime rate would be much lower, but people planning terrorism aren't trying to get away with it; this reduces the government's capacity to control them relative to people violating other laws.

But it's much harder to find weapons, travel around the country, find a place to live, etc.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#382

Post by oldmanjay »

anu_gupta wrote: post #356
zeveb wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen them walking around in train stations, airports, public squares and on the sidewalk. Remarkable from an American perspective.

I guess it's almost as remarkable as the number of people in the USA who actually get killed by police.

Do you feel like this was a useful comment? If so, to what end?

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#383

Post by zeveb »

zeveb wrote: post #269
TallGuyShort wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious, as I haven't been to Europe - were these at border posts? Public transit hubs? Anything else?

I've seen them walking around in train stations, airports, public squares and on the sidewalk. Remarkable from an American perspective.

I really gotta ask: why was this downvoted? It's composed of purely factual statements in answer to a question.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#384

Post by pjc50 »

themartorana wrote: post #358
TallGuyShort wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> police are not routinely armed I'm a gun owner and this is the key point for me. No politician is in a position to tell me I don't need my semi-automatic pistol if every day I see a patrol car go by my house with 2 fully automatic AR-15s locked between the front seats and my local police department owns an armoured vehicle. If you really think you have a plan for getting rid of guns for bad guys as well as me, pro…

Upvote upvote upvote. The whole point of the 2nd Amendment was that the country was founded by taking up arms against tyranny, and the framers knew that the new government they were forming could just as easily lean towards tyranny. Well, we're here. The police are no longer community organizations, rather they're full military units charged with waging war against the citizens they purport to protect. Personally, I…

> civil uprisings are much more likely in a country where people are armed*

Yes - but this is not a good thing! It's a bug not a feature!

I started this thread mentioning Dunblane, but perhaps I should have mentioned the Easter Risings and the Good Friday Agreement instead. The UK had an armed uprising for decades in Northern Ireland and it was terrible. I can't seem to get any of the guns-are-important-for-fighting-the-government advocates to engage with this and look at what actually happened when people responded to civil and human rights violations with AR-15s and Semtex.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#385

Post by yrro »

Loque wrote: post #217
BryanB55 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"who in the world needs an assault rifle?" People interested in self defense. The term "assault rifle" or "assault weapon" was made up by the media. An assault rifle is just your typical rifle that your great grandfather would have used for hunting back in the day. It is not what the media and politicians will lead you to believe. I think what leads people to ask this question is an major misunderstanding that an "as…

What do you need a gun to defend yourself against? In the UK someone did use a gun to "defend" themselves, against two people without guns: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)

> What do you need a gun to defend yourself against?

Toddlers, apparently!

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#386

Post by adwf »

marrs wrote: post #379
adwf wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be wearing some funny glasses, I see a very clear downward trend from left to right over all those charts. And that chart you just linked is the very same one that was completely debunked earlier in the thread and still shows a consistent long term downward trend... It's not irrelevant as a large number of firearms were unlicensed. There were a ton of old service guns lying in peoples attics completely unreg…

long term, yes, but in the few years after the gun ban, the graph goes steeply up, so I don't know how you can draw the conclusion that banning guns had the consequence of reducing gun crime. And the graph I linked to seems to use the same data yours does, so aparently your data is just as worthless as mine. It's not irrelevant as a large number of firearms were unlicensed. There were a ton of old service guns lying…

You seem to be falling prey to Simpsons's Paradox:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson's_paradox

The chart is very clearly downward, with a couple of upward slopes in the middle. If you cherry pick the evidence like that crimeresearch.org link does, you'll get the upward slope. If you look at the data as a whole, you get the long term downward trend. This is pretty much the definition of Simpson's Paradox. The downward trend is the correct one.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#387

Post by JoeAltmaier »

Loque wrote: post #217
BryanB55 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"who in the world needs an assault rifle?" People interested in self defense. The term "assault rifle" or "assault weapon" was made up by the media. An assault rifle is just your typical rifle that your great grandfather would have used for hunting back in the day. It is not what the media and politicians will lead you to believe. I think what leads people to ask this question is an major misunderstanding that an "as…

What do you need a gun to defend yourself against? In the UK someone did use a gun to "defend" themselves, against two people without guns: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)

In many US states there is a requirement to retreat - that its not self-defence if you could have avoided the incident. Sounds like the UK has a requirement like that too?

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#388

Post by mikestew »

zeveb wrote: post #253
amelius wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess this amounts to a chicken-and-egg problem. In many European countries, police officers are only minimally armed (just a handgun, used only in rare circumstances).

> In many European countries, police officers are only minimally armed (just a handgun, used only in rare circumstances). And yet when I've been in Europe I've seen plenty of police and/or paramilitary units carrying submachine guns, something I never saw here in the U.S. even after 11 September.

something I never saw here in the U.S. even after 11 September.

They were there, mainly at the airport. Not in recent years, and probably not very long after 2001, but I certainly saw armed military at the U. S. airports for six months or more after 09/11/01.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#389

Post by BFatts »

Soon as I got to "rightwing scapegoat" I stopped reading. Sorry, but if it included "leftwing wacko" it would be the same with me. If you can't get your point across without trying to be witty and calling Florida, USA's penis, you don't deserve my attention.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#390

Post by dagw »

pjc50 wrote: post #279
TallGuyShort wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious, as I haven't been to Europe - were these at border posts? Public transit hubs? Anything else?

Yeah, transport hubs especially airports but also some railway stations will often have conspicuously armed police patrolling. And high-profile government buildings. The UK gun of choice for this is the distinctive HK MP5 submachine gun. Conversely if you want to see the use of the AR-15 in public artwork, you should go to Northern Ireland. In Switzerland I once saw a conscript get on a train and put his rifle in the…

Last summer when I was in Switzerland I got on train with at least 50 conscripts, all casually on their way home with a beer in one hand and an assalt rifle in the the other. Kind of a weird sight.
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