Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 497 posts

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#381

Post by dragonwriter »

CountSessine wrote: post #254
fukusa wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To anybody with basic reasoning capabilities. There are millions of Muslims in France. You could try to make it look like Islam is the cause of all this, but that would be hard to prove.

And that's your argument? Negative correlation based on your own incredulity? The terrorists themselves claim a religious muslim tradition. The best you have is that they're brainwashed victims, because, well, there's lots of other muslims who don't become terrorists? You have no basic reasoning capabilities yourself. At least the poster you were responding to had a correlation. You have nothing.

> The terrorists themselves claim a religious muslim tradition.

And other terrorists claim other traditions. We could look at all those traditions as unrelated, unconnected causes of terrorism because, hey, that's what each of the terrorists said was important to them -- or we could look for common features that link them to try to understand why people become terrorists.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#382

Post by Houshalter »

x1798DE wrote: post #336
Houshalter wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This probably won't be a popular opinion on Hacker News, but it is it possible to compromise with a limited amount of mass surveillance? I believe it was LA that had a plane fly above the city and record 24/7. It was just enough resolution to make out cars and people, but not identify anyone. Less invasive than security cameras in that sense. And I don't think it was live. It was just something the police could go ba…

Why? This sort of thing is flashy but not a real danger you need to be concerned about (think shark attack not car crash), so even if you take the premise that mass surveillance could stop it (dubious), it's probably not worth paying much for, certainly not any abridgements of our rights.

I mostly agree. This would be more useful for everyday crime than terrorism. And I think that makes it worth it.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#383

Post by yarou »

jacquesm wrote: post #313
Fezzik wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I wish this were true, do you not think the primary impetus is (likely) religious? I would wager these people are not crazy in any clinical sense; they have been deluded by a religious upbringing and culturally supported religious fervor. It is disingenuous to say that religion is not a contributing factor, if not the primary factor. It is like Steven Weinberg summarized: With or without [religion] you would ha…

If you go down that route you'll have a hard time explaining 'Jihad John' and the many western youths (including some that are extremely pale skinned) and that suddenly feel the need to join IS or do something else that is profoundly stupid and against their self-interests in every way.

That doesn't have anything to do with religion.

Everyone has an existential crisis in their life, and desires to become a part of something greater than themselves.

The traditional institutions in Western society that promoted this sense of belonging have been eroded in the recent decade, which could explain the trend toward joining organizations like ISIS and their ilk.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#384

Post by [deleted] »

Houshalter wrote: post #297
pyrrhotech wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you'd feel differently if you had a loved one in the towers on 9/11

I have no idea what your point is. If I lost a loved one to a vending machine accident, I might develop a really irrational fear of vending machines. It doesn't mean vending machines are a threat to our society. I know someone who is deadly afraid of putting shoes on tables. Because her friend did that before dying in a traffic accident.

[deleted]

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#385

Post by zxcvcxz »

serge2k wrote: post #307
zxcvcxz wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The real massive danger is constantly trying to downplay it. No, it's not. The danger is over reacting, as history has proven time and time again. Fear is not the answer.

Well it's true that France doesn't need to pass their own patriot act tomorrow and start restricting freedoms, under reacting is also possible. The fact is they were attacked and a response is necessary. It doesn't need to be reactionary, it can be thoughtful and measured, but something needs to be done.

I don't think anyone is saying that there should be no response, people just think we shouldn't over react. Closing off the borders and refusing to take more Middle Eastern refugees is a sane response, starting more wars is an insane response.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#386

Post by ino »

ino wrote: post #361
sohaeb wrote: post #342

As a muslim lurker of this amazing site I would like to express my sympathy to those who died and hope everyone will be safe. Also, those with comments that are trying to cause fear and hatred, you are just making other muslims living in the west feel scared and sad. I swear, right now im scared taht one day some people will be treating muslims just like how Americans used to treat black people in Slavery era. Even w…

Don't fear, we'll get through it. But There is real slavery going on in the emirates and qatar right now if you want to get mad.

Both our comments are in the heat of the moment. Now I regret replying.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#387

Post by mc32 »

jacquesm wrote: post #120
rdl wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not primarily a technology problem, but I think there are technological solutions which will help mitigate the harm to innocents. (There's also a whole suite of technology problems here solved via JDAMs and Hellfires, which seem to be actively being pursued.)

The primary cause of these incidents seems to be radicalization of segments of society with 'nothing to lose'. The societal problems involved in the creation of such segments and what can be done about them is a large and complex issue in which some technology will for sure be useful but which is first and foremost a people problem. The seeds for these issues were sown many years ago (and in quite a few cases with th…

Some of it is attributable to people with nothing to lose; however a good many have lots to lose, personally as well as socially at large. It's more about ideology than actually personal grievances.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#388

Post by Keyframe »

serge2k wrote: post #356
Keyframe wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is screening for who's who.

What do you mean? They are all women and children. Even that guy with the heavy beard and body of a 25 year old man, he's really 15. He's actually Syrian too, the accent being completely wrong is just a quirk.

He's a child at heart! Seriously though, it's a terrifying thought of having tens of thousands+ of people wandering about unregistered / unscreened first. It is (has) changed now somewhat, but who knows what was let in.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#389

Post by rdancer »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #80
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expansion of executive and police powers, I'd assume. In the worst case, you might even hear calls for internment.

I presume you mean internment of minorities, immigrants, and/or refugees?

Brown people, yes.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#390

Post by jacquesm »

alan_cx wrote: post #362
jacquesm wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flagged.

Why? Its an angry comment, but its what very many think. Don't we listen in order to understand that which we don't understand? Is only one view allowed? 15 years of this war on terror, and we have this. Something isn't working, something needs to change. I'd suggest that flagging people we don't like the sound of is one of those things we need to change.

> "It's because of dhimmis like you"

Is specifically against HN guidelines for commenting.

Otherwise we're in violent agreement, that whole 'war on terror' thing is bankrupt and it's high time that that was acknowledged in the places where it matters but that will take a lot of time and a very different approach to problem solving.

Post reply on HN