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Please don't use Slack for FOSS projects

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Re: Please don't use Slack for FOSS projects

#381

Post by scythe »

KirinDave wrote: post #241
scythe wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are these limitations in the protocol, or just in the network, especially freenode? If someone were to run a paid, $5-a-month to run a channel with over 20 users IRC network, would they be able to address the difficulties of freenode and EFNet before it? Would SILC fix anything?

Why would this even be desirable?

All of the complaints about IRC relate to service interruptions, channels with a high # of people slowing the server, security, etc. You can fix those things by running a private network, but not for free.

Re: Please don't use Slack for FOSS projects

#382

Post by diqu »

Killswitch wrote: post #370
akshatpradhan wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's the problem with IRC. The idea of decentralized IRC networks means that channels are scattered amongst multiple IRC networks. IRC is already not as usable as Slack, and to have multiple networks decreases usability even further. I love IRC, but I see why Slack is full of win.

But decentralized is the best thing ever! I hate that argument. If decentralized was so great, then it'd be more popular, but it's not. More and more centralized stuff is exploding in popularity.

But that brings us back to mbillie and "if were so great, everyone would already use/do ". Does popularity necessarily imply superiority? Adoption just means it's easy for anyone to get aboard. But that doesn't mean it's implicitly good, in any other way. Worse is better works, for example, if one option is more approachable than the other. Decentralization is good, as a rule of the thumb. Not having everyone on the same network, but having the ability to set up your own network or service based on the technology, is a good thing. Why would you want to have everyone on the same network? Networks are often topic-related. For example Freenode for programming-related topics. Minecraft is pretty focused on EsperNet. Quakenet used to be the place to online gaming. This is usefull and good, since communities sort themselves by interest, views, tools or what have you, by default. So why not encourage self-sustainability through means of decentralization?

Re: Please don't use Slack for FOSS projects

#383

Post by thegeekpirate »

_xhok wrote: post #379
thegeekpirate wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? Every viewer also connects to their IRC chat, hence "using" it. Heck, I personally connect to it using my IRC client.

The discussion is about users who use IRC directly and consciously. Many of Twitch's users have no clue what IRC is. Imagine a new social app that used SMTP in its implementation. You wouldn't bring it up in a discussion about the popularity of email. No one denies IRC's continued popularity as a protocol for broadcasting text over a network. Slack itself uses it. But it's dying out as measured by the number of peopl…

> The discussion is about users who use IRC directly and consciously.

From the parent post I replied to, "IRC's user base is declining". Every single person watching a Twitch stream is an IRC user, whether they know it or not.

How do you determine the popularity of something? How many people use it.

Android is extremely popular. Do most of the folks realize they're using an Android phone? Nope.

Does it mean Android isn't popular? Nope.

If you don't have a similar understanding, we'll have to agree to disagree.

> The point is more that it's dying out as measured by people who say to their colleagues e.g. "jump on IRC, I've got something to tell you."

Of course they wouldn't, you're already speaking with them. Slack is fine for trusted networks of peers (businesses), but not much else. I won't start chatting with any my friends using it, nor would I bother to sign up somewhere to get access to a random Slack channel/community instead of using IRC, where I also coincidentally wouldn't need any of Slack's features.

Re: Please don't use Slack for FOSS projects

#384

Post by cwyers »

davexunit wrote: post #215
parasubvert wrote: post #12

This seems to be similar to the argument of "don't use Github or Bitbucket, use your own hosted Gitlab". Some of the complaints are a bit petty (really, an extra browser tab per project is a burden?) IRC is better for occasional participants that wish to remain anonymous and/or use less screen real estate, but Slack is generally a better experience for regulars and way less hassle than hosting your own server/bots. Y…

>really, an extra browser tab per project is a burden? Spoken like someone who has never been a serious IRC user.

I mean, you're not limited to one browser window. Having one browser window for just Slack is like having a mIRC window for all the IRC channels you're in.

Re: Please don't use Slack for FOSS projects

#385

Post by yuhong »

Sanddancer wrote: post #377
yuhong wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they or the FSF are referring to chat apps like Slack. In fact, I think the FSF's definition specifically excludes group chat.

They are. They use that term for any hosted service.

From http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-se... : "Neither is publishing your own materials via a blog site or a microblogging service such as Twitter or StatusNet. (These services may have other problems, of course.) The same goes for other communication not meant to be private, such as chat groups."

Re: Please don't use Slack for FOSS projects

#386

Post by rando289 »

randomsearch wrote: post #175
rando289 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If IRC were good enough to handle the needs of small software company communication, people would use IRC. Given A and B, if A were good enough, people would use A... What if B is better? What if both are good enough? You go on as if your first sentence stands up on it's own. It makes no sense at all.

> Given A and B, if A were good enough, people would use A... What if B is better? What if both are good enough? Prior to Slack existing, lots of people who now use Slack weren't using IRC, because Slack offers a lot more. Everyone I know working in academia or on a startup that uses any kind of instant chat uses Slack. None of them previously used IRC for the same purpose. And it's just _obvious_ why, once you've us…

> Prior to Slack existing, lots of people who now use Slack weren't using IRC, because Slack offers a lot more.

Wow, going off the deep end here. Unless you are a time traveler, there is no way to not use IRC because of slack, 'prior to slack existing.'

Re: Please don't use Slack for FOSS projects

#387

Post by _xhok »

thegeekpirate wrote: post #383
_xhok wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The discussion is about users who use IRC directly and consciously. Many of Twitch's users have no clue what IRC is. Imagine a new social app that used SMTP in its implementation. You wouldn't bring it up in a discussion about the popularity of email. No one denies IRC's continued popularity as a protocol for broadcasting text over a network. Slack itself uses it. But it's dying out as measured by the number of peopl…

> The discussion is about users who use IRC directly and consciously. From the parent post I replied to, "IRC's user base is declining". Every single person watching a Twitch stream is an IRC user, whether they know it or not. How do you determine the popularity of something? How many people use it. Android is extremely popular. Do most of the folks realize they're using an Android phone? Nope. Does it mean Android i…

Of course they're all IRC users inadvertently. That doesn't add to IRC's popularity. If Twitch disabled IRC and switched its chatrooms to some ghetto socket.io app, most of its users wouldn't know.

> Of course they wouldn't, you're already speaking with them. Slack is fine for trusted networks of peers (businesses), but not much else. I won't start chatting with any my friends using it, nor would I bother to sign up somewhere to get access to a random Slack channel/community instead of using IRC, where I also coincidentally wouldn't need any of Slack's features.

No, what I meant was, people no longer think of IRC as the tool to use to talk about projects and communities. They used to. That was its primary use case. That use case is shrinking, so IRC is becoming less popular.

> How do you determine the popularity of something? How many people use it. Android is extremely popular. Do most of the folks realize they're using an Android phone? Nope.

This isn't quite true, is it? Most Android users seem to know they're using Android. I could be wrong.

Re: Please don't use Slack for FOSS projects

#388

Post by rando289 »

randomsearch wrote: post #175
rando289 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If IRC were good enough to handle the needs of small software company communication, people would use IRC. Given A and B, if A were good enough, people would use A... What if B is better? What if both are good enough? You go on as if your first sentence stands up on it's own. It makes no sense at all.

> Given A and B, if A were good enough, people would use A... What if B is better? What if both are good enough? Prior to Slack existing, lots of people who now use Slack weren't using IRC, because Slack offers a lot more. Everyone I know working in academia or on a startup that uses any kind of instant chat uses Slack. None of them previously used IRC for the same purpose. And it's just _obvious_ why, once you've us…

> it's just _obvious_ why

Uh, nope. Most people use communication platforms due to network effects: because they were invited to use it, because their friends/coleagues use it. Slack is no different.

Re: Please don't use Slack for FOSS projects

#389

Post by [deleted] »

_xhok wrote: post #387
thegeekpirate wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The discussion is about users who use IRC directly and consciously. From the parent post I replied to, "IRC's user base is declining". Every single person watching a Twitch stream is an IRC user, whether they know it or not. How do you determine the popularity of something? How many people use it. Android is extremely popular. Do most of the folks realize they're using an Android phone? Nope. Does it mean Android i…

Of course they're all IRC users inadvertently. That doesn't add to IRC's popularity. If Twitch disabled IRC and switched its chatrooms to some ghetto socket.io app, most of its users wouldn't know. > Of course they wouldn't, you're already speaking with them. Slack is fine for trusted networks of peers (businesses), but not much else. I won't start chatting with any my friends using it, nor would I bother to sign up…

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