It's funny how people in the US hate government so much that they seem more outraged by a national agency collecting meta-data for antiterrorism purpose, than private company collecting content for ad targeting.
US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program
371–380 of 420 posts
Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program
#372I think it's interesting to ask why these programs are so widely hated. These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish: the dozens of Soviet-era nuclear weapons believed to be missing, or the small amounts of dangerous pathogens that periodically vanish from research labs. These are what the government…
Well, our collective democracies are less than perfect; easily swayed by money and special interests, not least the special interests of government agents and other civil servants. Like many (most?) organizations, government is necessarily self-serving, (or self-perpetuating at the very least) and the power imbalance that is amplified by technological change is directed first and foremost at the preservation and survival of the very institutions that hold the reigns. Normally, we might direct our attention to our systems of checks and balances to redress any imbalance of power, but these systems were designed in an age where modern technological capabilities were simply inconceivable, much less effectively planned for. We are only starting to tentatively explore the potentially monumental implications of this shift in the balance of power. Whilst it pains me to admit this, my advice is to admit defeat, to recognize that our privacy (and with it, our freedom) has been irrevocably compromised, and to do what we can to ensure our own individual survival over the coming decades: to wit, offer our full-throated support for whatever objective the agencies claim to be currently pursuing, and to learn to be more guarded and more circumspect about what we say and think. ("I for one welcome our new silicon overlords" etc... etc...).
Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program
#373Earlier quoted context omitted.
The loss of privacy is massive in comparison to the lives lost to terrorism. More people die each year due to car accidents than have lost their lives to all terrorist attacks on US Soil. If the information that is being gathered is about safety, then why isn't the government isn't creating a massive program to strictly monitor highway speeds, traffic roadways, and increase traffic safety then? Answer: The informatio…
We have such a massive program, according to many; the NTSB is a big bureaucracy and a lot of people consider the whole concept of speed limits and traffic police as a encroachment upon their freedom rather than a reasonable collective decision on how to share transit arteries. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master. This seems a rather inappropriate apho…
> We have such a massive program, according to many; the NTSB is a big bureaucracy and a lot of people consider the whole concept of speed limits and traffic police as a encroachment upon their freedom rather than a reasonable collective decision on how to share transit arteries.
A similar view is held here (in the Netherlands), where interesting new methods are created to monitor speeding. The thing is, it's not viewed - or even promoted as - something that increases safety and reduces lethal accidents on the roads, but instead as a way for the government to make money.
Similarly, the way this is portrayed and kept secret by the government and the security agencies is not to reduce and prevent terrorist attacks, but to infringe upon the privacy of people using US-based online services. If the NSA and similar organizations were to be more open about what terrorist attacks they prevented, they would create more goodwill and would gain support from the people.
Yet, branding terrorists and openly causing fear of terrorists and their attacks has two side-effects; one, it will make terrorists smarter and more secretive, and two, it happens in all the Orwellian dystopias, instilling fear of 'terrorists' and foreign nations in the populace as a means of control.
Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program
#374Earlier quoted context omitted.
>>Warren Buffet has predicted a major nuclear terrorist attack on an American city to be a "virtual certainty" given enough time. Everything is a certainty given enough time. In addition, Mr. Buffet may be a great investor, but what exactly how much would he know about terrorists or nuclear weapons? Probably as much as you and I.
No, everything is not certain given enough time. Because the facts of each iteration can completely alter the whole chain. This is the argument that if you flip a coin enough times, heads MUST come up. But that is in fact not true. Each flip is completely independent of the last flip. Given enough time, there is in fact no law that says heads must occur. Real life events work much the same way. Any given event can be…
>>This is the argument that if you flip a coin enough times, heads MUST come up
No, it's the argument that given enough time, it is certain that something as unlikely as a direct meteorite strike on Earth will happen. Low probability x infinite timeframe = %100 occurrence
Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program
#375I just emailed Tim Cook that imho iCloud is dead. He is welcome to add options to use my own cloud storage while using clientside encryption, and I might reconsider. You're welcome to send him your opinion as well. It's tcook@youknowntherest.
Apple demonstrated that resistance is possible, for reasons unknown, when it held out for more than five years I'm pretty sure that unknown reason was Steve Jobs. Apple became a participant 1 year after Tim Cook took the helm.
It's quite strange that list doesn't include iMessages (and BBMs!)
Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seriously... You'd think of all the billions of dollars that go into military training they'd be able to put up a few bucks to teach this guy how to lie a little more believably
The guy probably hasn't had to worry about such things for decades. He's an operations bureaucrat, and probably someone above him decided they could afford to burn him if the shit hit the fan (and by this point, they probably already knew some shit was heading toward the fan).
More likely: He, and everyone else involved in this, know that it doesn't matter if everyone knows the answer is a lie - the likelihood of any negative consequences is pretty much zero. First, the odds that anyone will be able to provide sufficient proof to cause any problems is minimal, secondly, if they are: State secrets privilege. Poof goes that problem.
The only real challenge would be a massive public uproar suitably close to an election that someone needs to be sacrificed, and how likely is that really? It's not a surprise that this is happening; the only surprise is that anything resembling proof has leaked. What are the odds that this will suddenly tip the balance and cause sufficient lasting outrage?
Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program
#377Hasn't this NSA stuff been pretty much public knowledge for years? Why are people acting like they've been had all of a sudden?
Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program
#378Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you call speed cameras, signs, highway maintenance, driver education, highway patrol policing, periodic public information campaigns and aggressive regulation of safety standards in the automobile industry?
Interestly enough, speed cameras and highway patrols have nothing to do with traffic safety either. Highways could easily have camera systems to monitor the exact time when cars get on and off exits to determine how fast on average they were going during their trip. These systems have been tested and work, but the fact is that actually cracking down on speeders is massively unpopular and a political non-starter.
Such a system would obviously be a huge privacy problem, as it would provide movement profiles of every car using a highway. So, not the best alternative spending compared to phone surveillance.
Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program
#379Question to the more experienced hackers here:
Would such a massive undertaking be possible without the knowledge of the regular developers working at these companies? Some big names on that list, like Facebook (and I think Dropbox was 'coming soon'). If developers at these companies knew about these measures, I'm really skeptical in believing that it took an intelligence officer to expose this story. Chances would be much higher of devs at these companies (chances being good that some of them are the reddit/HN libertarian types) would have exposed this long ago.
Is such an operation feasible without the knowledge of hundreds of Google/facebook/other engineers?
Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program
#380I have two questions for which I couldn't find the answer:
1 - Will these companies provide data from all users or only US citizens?
2 - Who has access to the data? Only people working on this program at US intelligence or a wider set of people? For instance, can they look up my emails, photos and so on if I am about to be interview for high profile government job?