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Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

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Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#371

I'm an American and a Verizon customer. Maybe I'm the proverbial frog in a pot of boiling water, but I'm not outraged. I'm not really even annoyed. I don't know why exactly, but I think it boils down (no pun intended) to two different things. First, I'm under no delusion that the US federal government has my personal best interest in mind with everything that it does. I think that usually the federal government as a…

it was not alarmist, it was just a convinient explanation to turn US into next China.

I realize there's some hyperbole here, but we're hardly "next China."

Reeducation through labor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re-education_through_labor

Beijing Olympics Relocation: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02...

Tibet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet#From_1950_to_present

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#372

Dutch person here with a little insight what's to come for you guys. Some information about our tiny little country (in Wester Europe, very pro-US) with just 17 million people. Our government listens in on more calls every year than in the whole of the US combined. All our telecommunications providers are forced to have the capability to intercept all traffic (phone and internet). Encrypted data must be stored for an…

Also Dutch. Didn't know about the drones, got a link for that? I believe you (esp. given all the other crap they pull), I'm curious how and where they use the drones.

There have been 81 official drone flights the last 5 months using the 'Raven' drone. Police are now learning to control the 'Scaneagle'. Amsterdam cops have already broken 2 of their drones... See: http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2013/05/09/bevestiging-na-kamervrag...

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#373
post #356

Gee, let's see: All that NSA 'big data', every phone call, from, to, time, etc. Then we had the wacko Boston bombers. So, apparently the great, all powerful, all seeing, all knowing NSA didn't see those two wackos coming. But, but, but, how could the poor, little NSA be expected to see two, obscure, wacko nutjobs? Well, let's see: The Russians told us over and over that those guys were wackos and dangerous. Told us f…

I realize I'm unfairly ignoring 90% of your rant, but I just want to say I disagree with "too much government" as the issue here. When my computer breaks, I don't throw away my computer. I fix the problem. Size doesn't matter. Focus does. Large organizations can have plenty of thoughtful focus, too. When two terrorists explode bombs at a public event, I definitely don't want less "gumment." I want effective governmen…

I tried to make clear: Big gumment brings two problems. First, it wastes money. That's the smaller problem but still quite significant (we need to get our economy going, and wasting money hurts). Second, big gumment is a real threat to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" and nearly everything we want.

But you want to emphasize "effective" gumment. Okay. So did I: I said that we should get the NSA being "safe and effective" for our country. "Safe" mostly means that the NSA doesn't trash our Constitution and ruin the US, and "effective" means what you want, catch the bad guys.

Now we come to the hard part: Catching the bad guys. In the case of Boston, as I pointed out, Russia told us. Russia was correct. So, really, it's getting clear: The NSA's ideas of all that 'big data' is not very effective. I know; I know; some of the Senators will say that in the secret hearings the NSA, FBI, DHS, CIA, etc. guys explain all the bad guys they stopped, bad guys that never made the news. Given Boston, I don't believe it! What I believe is that they go after some guy in the second grade in the lunch room who takes the bread from his sandwich, cuts it out to like like a gun, shows it around his lunch table, and the big gumment guys shut down the school. Or they go after Aaron Swartz. They are just not competent. So, they are not effective.

"Big" is always a threat: Ike warned about the military-industrial complex, and the bigness is much of the positive feedback loop that has it grow.

Sure, we'd both like more competence. Remember 9/11? Or, remember one of the core reasons? Right: Some semi-, pseudo-, quasi-bright guy had one of his better ideas: If a terrorist tries to take over an airplane in mid-flight, then don't resist and, instead, let him have it. Presto: Open, engraved invitation to 9/11. Bet you can't do that now. Even if managed to get on an airplane with various weapons, bet couldn't take over the plane and fly it into a big building. So, need the TSA, DHS, and NSA for that? Nope: Just change the silly rule that says give an airplane to any terrorist who asks.

Competence is more difficult. I'm all for more in competence. But big and competent don't go well together.

Look, it's not worth trashing our Constitution, setting up an organization that could take us to Hitler, and wasting the big bucks to set up an NSA that could catch another Boston bomber, even if such an organization could catch another bomber, which likely they can't. Heck, again, the Russians told us about those two loser, wacko nutjobs, which is much better info than we could have hoped for from the NSA, and still we did nothing.

Big gumment in England? Go after a guy because of something about pictures of nude children on his computer that turned out to be his grandchildren playing with water in the yard.

Big gumment in the US? Have some Department of Natural Resources (DNR) go after a couple with several cats, several dogs, and a five year old deer they had raised from a fawn whose mother had just been killed in an auto accident, really, a minute or so before the fawn was born. So the DNR has in their imagination that deer, with their hoofs, can hurt people. Of course, in this case, the deer has been just fine, in the house, with several dogs and cats, for five years, not even hurting the furniture. Big gumment.

And we have the Aaron Swartz case, gumment going wacko over some PDF files readily available to everyone at MIT for free and in paper form in nearly every research library in the world for the cost of photocopying. Big gumment.

We saw in the IRS case big gumment abusing its powers. Well, the NSA data would be an engraved invitation to more such abuses -- shakedowns, blackmail, payoffs, kickbacks, etc.

In reality, the more effective gumment you want will have to be smaller gumment.

There's a recent example with the F-35. Supposedly part of the problem with that program is that someone wants to change the specifications on some screw, so they have a meeting all day with everyone affected, 600 people, that is a representative from each of all the possibly affected subcontractors or some such. The solution? The Lockheed Skunk Works deliberately kept small enough to keep up communications and keep down the huge meetings.

For the NSA phone data, that sounds like the old project Total Information Awareness or some such. There has been a little company on a few floors of a not very attractive office building on the space of a shopping mall in a suburb of Boston. Once I went for an interview. I used to do 'artificial intelligence', i.e., 'expert systems', and they were big on that, likely from what some people at DARPA are still dreaming about. So, they wanted to get data on phone calls, maybe e-mail messages, postcards, whatever, with data on from, to, and date, and then build a big directed graph with an arc for each communication and a node for each person sending or receiving. Then they wanted to do some analysis of the graph, look for 'cliques' or some such. While they explained, I tried to stay awake, but being really interested was asking too much. BS. Total BS. But it looks like the graph people have taken over the NSA. All the brighter people in Russia are likely doing a ROFL. I'm not laughing: It's expensive, dumb, and dangerous. Just cut it back.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, it is, fanfare.., Germany. I read this above report and can't believe it. When that this happen? Our data privacy laws are thorough and sometimes an obstacle, but many projects got stopped because of privacy issues: e.g. the digital stored medical records on ones health insurance card The stop of the data retention directive by our beloved Bundesverfassungsgericht (they are awesome) is another milestone. Core of…

Well to be honest, in retrospect the present Germans are lucky as compared to other countries that they already are educated either first, or second hand about the issue of government knowing everything. Another point could be made is that thank god it happened during the low tech era and not today because a Hitler-esque figure armed with a German equivalent of Google would positively fuck up the entire world with ev…

What alas struck me as odd in Germany that after ww2 and the Stazi in east germany you still have manditory ID cards + registration when you move with the police! and you get upset about street view?

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#375

Gee, let's see: All that NSA 'big data', every phone call, from, to, time, etc. Then we had the wacko Boston bombers. So, apparently the great, all powerful, all seeing, all knowing NSA didn't see those two wackos coming. But, but, but, how could the poor, little NSA be expected to see two, obscure, wacko nutjobs? Well, let's see: The Russians told us over and over that those guys were wackos and dangerous. Told us f…

It's simple. This movement in security and spying on your own citizens is driven by the military industrial complex.

Here's a VICE documentary on it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL_3Qg-SADY

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#377
post #148
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is why you should put your servers in iceland or similar places. With asymetric encription there is no need; Only the user knows and not the service provider.

Why in Iceland ?

Mostly out of reach of nsa, fbi etc. More than average respect for privacy etc. Cheap green energy.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Imagine voting for you own major, sheriff, congressman and president! (This is no joke people, we can't. They're appointed from within their own ranks. We can vote for a specific party-leader and hope they win. But the always end up creating a coalition with 2 or 33 other party's and needing to compromise).

You think the US two party, first-past-the-post system is better?! Why would normal citizens vote for the president? There are only two possible outcomes of that: a president gets selected who basically blocks what the rest of the government wants (this is how it works in the US and exactly what the FF wanted) or the people pick a president who would work with the government but would have been picked with your curre…

Yes its is it makes for a stronger government and reduces the influenced of extremists holding the country to ransom.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#379

Gee, let's see: All that NSA 'big data', every phone call, from, to, time, etc. Then we had the wacko Boston bombers. So, apparently the great, all powerful, all seeing, all knowing NSA didn't see those two wackos coming. But, but, but, how could the poor, little NSA be expected to see two, obscure, wacko nutjobs? Well, let's see: The Russians told us over and over that those guys were wackos and dangerous. Told us f…

well woudl you take what the FSB says on face value? I sure the FSB told MI5 that Litvinenko was a "wacko nutjob"

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#380
This is pretty unconstitional, but there's a problem with the constitution and the government.

Thwarting the constitution is pretty simple if you have enough willing (or unwilling but coercible) participants in government. We have three co-equal branches of government. If two branches collude to thwart the constitution, they will always succeed because they can override the third branch. And of course if all three branches collude (as is arguably the case in the last 12 years), the constitution goes down without a fight.

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