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AI isn’t outthinking mathematicians, it’s out-remembering them

davidepiffer.com

371–380 of 546 posts

Re: AI isn’t outthinking mathematicians, it’s out-remembering them

#371
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re prescribing elegance to a stochastic generator trained on the wealth of humanity, including 4chan. Let’s set our expectations a bit.

Your brain is a stochastic generator. Have you read 4chan?

Whenever someone tell me they can be reduced to an LLM, I believe them. I see you and I believe you that you are qualitatively the same as a language model.

Re: AI isn’t outthinking mathematicians, it’s out-remembering them

#372
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s possible, but there’s a difference between vastness and difficulty. Humans can’t compete with AIs on vastness of material they are familiar with, or the depth of effort they are willing and able to throw at a problem. But scale isn’t the only aspect of difficult scientific endeavours. There’s also theory. And advancements sometimes come through hard graft of knotting together many things. And sometimes they come…

I don't think that's true. Human intelligence is limited, and our brains are inefficient machines. The tools we built to replace muscles have mostly obsoleted raw strength for tasks like excavating earth. There's no reason to think we can't do the same for brains. And then we'll never need to think for a living again. Some people may want to do it as a commercially insignificant hobby, of course, the way people lift…

Evidently some already stopped thinking way before the advent of these mythical thinking machines

Re: AI isn’t outthinking mathematicians, it’s out-remembering them

#373
LLMs are still missing a part of working memory. Part of working memory is being able to attend to small amounts of information and then understand and parse all the pieces of that information. When LLMs use their "working memory" they just analyze different probabilities of tokens and there is no prioritization or understanding of the information in the way humans have it.

If there is no training data or data in the context that leads it to the correct result then it can't do it, whereas a human seems to be able to generalize and abstract a goal and then repeat an action or thought process in a 'recursive' manner to reach the result. AFAIK LLMs don't do this.

Just as an example to illustrate. I recently asked an LLM to organize a bunch of artists albums into whether they were released by a major label or an independent label, and for the most part it did a good job. But there were albums that it classified as independendent that weren't. I presume because it either didn't run into the right data when searching or it misunderstood the data it did find. A human would not do this because if a human had a list of all major labels, it could instantly detect whether an album was or wasn't indie, because it doesn't do any complicated parsing or token probabilities that LLMs do, it just recognizes a pattern (either an album is indie or it is not, a human brain needs simply one piece of information to decide this), an LLM is not that simple.

In a way human brains are simpler than LLMs. The algorithms it runs mentally can detect a piece of information and then see most / all of the consequences of that information whereas an LLM thrawls through megabytes of text and does a token probability distribution and so on without any simplicity.

Re: AI isn’t outthinking mathematicians, it’s out-remembering them

#375
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever heard of string theory. People go whole lives without being able to make it pan out.

String theory is a great example of a dead end kept alive by ego and sunk cost fallacy. An AI would have declared it dead and moved on 10 years earlier.

> It's also "out-brute forcing them." It just never gets tired. If a mathematician picks a research direction and spends a whole week on it and it doesn't pan out, they will likely be annoyed, need a break for a while, etc. This thing just does not ever get tired or discouraged or care; it's just onto the next thing until something ends up working.

> String theory is a great example of a dead end kept alive by ego and sunk cost fallacy. An AI would have declared it dead and moved on 10 years earlier.

Not only are LLMs perfect machines with all the intelligence of humanity without any of our problems, they are also everything else. I wait to get my hands on one of those LLMs people on hn seem to be using. I want to believe too. Let me into the religion of the perfect thinking machine gods.

Re: AI isn’t outthinking mathematicians, it’s out-remembering them

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not understanding what humanoid robots are about. Those are specialist robots you are describing. The promise is of course one robot that can do the plumbing, clean your house, do the dishes, build a house, and basically every physical job a human can do. It's extreme lly likely that at least a somewhat humanoid shape is required for that.

My octopus will outperform your humanoid by doing the dishes, fixing the plumbing, and preparing a Caesar salad, all at the same time!

Ah, but my "five guys" will outperform your one octopus!

Re: AI isn’t outthinking mathematicians, it’s out-remembering them

#377
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humanoid robots are obviously more than marketing. The entirety of human civilization is human shaped. Making robots that are human shaped is easier and more efficient than redesigning and rebuilding everything that exists.

Outside of sci-fi, marketing proposals, and niches like "Elder care in Japan" there are very few humanoid robots. By contrast non-humanoid robots have been mass produced and used in industry for decades. Arms. Carts. Trollies. No people. If you want something with fine motor control and dexterity, it's easier to make that the robot and then have another robot bring the workpiece to the arm than it is to build a singl…

>elder care is niche

The 2030s have some bad news for us...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-gYFcVx-8Y

Re: AI isn’t outthinking mathematicians, it’s out-remembering them

#378
which is why the programming language for LLMs hasn't been invented yet. I cannot read someone else's code that is filled with single letter very real names, but I can write it but as a human with human working memory, I can only hold so many variables in my head to reason about an LM is a much greater working memory unless does not need the same abstractions as a human does if I'm no longer riding the code and I don't need to read it, then not only is goto's considered harmful is holding us back, but bring on the big ball of mud spaghetti code that outperforms human written code, that no human has a chance of maintaining or reasoning about.

The problem with this is there is going to be a bug that needs fixing that the LM can't fix and if the humans can't understand the bug that we're just gonna have to live with the bug! But let's not talk about that.

Re: AI isn’t outthinking mathematicians, it’s out-remembering them

#379
post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might benefit from (proper, not the multiple choice kind) aptitude testing.

What are the benefits? What would/could I do with the results?

Save money on future dates by causing the woman to leave before she even orders dinner after you pull out your Mensa© Membership card.
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