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ZCode – Harness for GLM-5.2

zcode.z.ai

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Re: ZCode – Harness for GLM-5.2

#371

Post by neonstatic »

jijji wrote: post #370
neonstatic wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Californian Communist Party?

Chinese Communist party? it would be funny if China didn't have laws related to companies in China exfiltrating foreign data and giving it to the government for espionage purposes, z.ai is a chinese company, based in the capital Beijing. The likelihood that they work with the government hand in glove is pretty high. I wouldn't run that binary on any machine I was doing anything serious with. If you ran it on a corpor…

> The likelihood that they work with the government hand in glove is pretty high

It's the same in the US, read Snowden's book.

Re: ZCode – Harness for GLM-5.2

#372

Post by jijji »

neonstatic wrote: post #371
jijji wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese Communist party? it would be funny if China didn't have laws related to companies in China exfiltrating foreign data and giving it to the government for espionage purposes, z.ai is a chinese company, based in the capital Beijing. The likelihood that they work with the government hand in glove is pretty high. I wouldn't run that binary on any machine I was doing anything serious with. If you ran it on a corpor…

> The likelihood that they work with the government hand in glove is pretty high It's the same in the US, read Snowden's book.

snowden's book, "Permanent Record" talks about the mass surveillance that he released in 2013. it makes no mention of AI companies sending data to the government. unless you can quote the exact language you're talking about in the book, I call BS on that.

secondly, you're claiming that it is the same in the US. there is no laws in the US requiring private companies to exfiltrate data and send it to the government en masse, like there is in China. these laws just don't exist, and if they did exist they would be ruled unconstitutional in violation of the Fourth amendment. As a matter of fact, last week Supreme Court decision in Chatrie v. United States came out on Monday, June 29, 2026 that affirmed that general warrants are a violation of the Fourth amendment, related to sweeping geofence warrants. so what you're talking about just does not exist. Yeah, I'm sure some companies, like Facebook, Google, etc have private agreements with government agencies to release data privately, these rules eventually are a violation of the Fourth amendment without a warrant.

to avoid any of this, I use open models with small providers that are very unlikely to be having private agreements with government agencies specifically to avoid that conflict. it's up to you to protect your own privacy. but to claim that the US government is doing this with AI companies, it's just flat wrong.

Re: ZCode – Harness for GLM-5.2

#373

Post by neonstatic »

jijji wrote: post #372
neonstatic wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The likelihood that they work with the government hand in glove is pretty high It's the same in the US, read Snowden's book.

snowden's book, "Permanent Record" talks about the mass surveillance that he released in 2013. it makes no mention of AI companies sending data to the government. unless you can quote the exact language you're talking about in the book, I call BS on that. secondly, you're claiming that it is the same in the US. there is no laws in the US requiring private companies to exfiltrate data and send it to the government en…

> "Permanent Record" talks about the mass surveillance that he released in 2013. it makes no mention of AI companies sending data to the government. unless you can quote the exact language you're talking about in the book, I call BS on that.

  "Just after I arrived in Japan, Perot Systems was bought by Dell, the personal computer maker, which was trying to expand its business into IT support and corporate and government services. Overnight, my ID badges and paystubs changed, and I became a Dell employee. This meant that the US government was paying Dell for my services, and Dell was taking a cut of that money and passing the rest along to me."

Re: ZCode – Harness for GLM-5.2

#374

Post by simjnd »

estearum wrote: post #331
simjnd wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that (for now) there are no consequences has no connection to the original point about privacy. The fact that China acts punitively with the data they gather on their citizens, and the US does not (yet), doesn't change at all the fact that the US actively harvests that data in a very aggressive way. There may or may never be a time where the US starts acting on it, covertly or openly. But still, they're siph…

Of course it's relevant! A country that siphons up data and then arrests you for saying mean things about Dear Leader is a lot, a lot worse than a country that siphons up data and then basically can't do anything with it. I don't think it should be downplayed , but it certainly isn't the same. It just isn't. It's ridiculous and counterproductive to describe it as such.

Where have I claimed that it isn't worse, or that it is the same?

Re: ZCode – Harness for GLM-5.2

#375

Post by estearum »

simjnd wrote: post #374
estearum wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's relevant! A country that siphons up data and then arrests you for saying mean things about Dear Leader is a lot, a lot worse than a country that siphons up data and then basically can't do anything with it. I don't think it should be downplayed , but it certainly isn't the same. It just isn't. It's ridiculous and counterproductive to describe it as such.

Where have I claimed that it isn't worse, or that it is the same?

> I don't see why we are downplaying it by saying it's worse elsewhere

This would suggest it is not worse elsewhere? Or are you saying it is worse elsewhere, but it being worse elsewhere is not a reason to downplay it here? Which, I agree with.

Re: ZCode – Harness for GLM-5.2

#376

Post by jijji »

neonstatic wrote: post #373
jijji wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

snowden's book, "Permanent Record" talks about the mass surveillance that he released in 2013. it makes no mention of AI companies sending data to the government. unless you can quote the exact language you're talking about in the book, I call BS on that. secondly, you're claiming that it is the same in the US. there is no laws in the US requiring private companies to exfiltrate data and send it to the government en…

> "Permanent Record" talks about the mass surveillance that he released in 2013. it makes no mention of AI companies sending data to the government. unless you can quote the exact language you're talking about in the book, I call BS on that. "Just after I arrived in Japan, Perot Systems was bought by Dell, the personal computer maker, which was trying to expand its business into IT support and corporate and governmen…

what does that have to do with AI companies being forced to exfiltrate data to the US government?

Re: ZCode – Harness for GLM-5.2

#378

Post by LtWorf »

switchbak wrote: post #368
LtWorf wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what's happening in Cuba right now?

You know what happened in China in this past century?

A lot of things. In the past century USA had plenty of "no blacks" signs around, Operation Barrel Roll happened against a neutral country, so I doubt USA have the moral high ground you think it has.

If we specifically refer to the past decade though, it looks much worse for USA.

Re: ZCode – Harness for GLM-5.2

#379

Post by switchbak »

LtWorf wrote: post #378
switchbak wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what happened in China in this past century?

A lot of things. In the past century USA had plenty of "no blacks" signs around, Operation Barrel Roll happened against a neutral country, so I doubt USA have the moral high ground you think it has. If we specifically refer to the past decade though, it looks much worse for USA.

I’m still waiting for those well sourced numbers I asked for.

Again, I’m not making any excuses for the USA, though you seem insistent on believing so. Two things can be true at the same time: that the USA has been a destructive world influence and contributed to much suffering, as well as China having killed an astronomical number of its own citizens. Both are bad, China is worse, full stop.

And why move the goalposts to the last decade? That’s like excusing Bill Cosby because he hasn’t done any raping lately.

Re: ZCode – Harness for GLM-5.2

#380

Post by neonstatic »

jijji wrote: post #376
neonstatic wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Permanent Record" talks about the mass surveillance that he released in 2013. it makes no mention of AI companies sending data to the government. unless you can quote the exact language you're talking about in the book, I call BS on that. "Just after I arrived in Japan, Perot Systems was bought by Dell, the personal computer maker, which was trying to expand its business into IT support and corporate and governmen…

what does that have to do with AI companies being forced to exfiltrate data to the US government?

It establishes a clear pattern of embedding US security apparatus within US businesses. I know the quote does not say "Anthropic" or "OpenAI", but I trust you can extrapolate the pattern.
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