Roll the dice, HR folks!
HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88
371–380 of 463 posts
Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88
#372This insanity only exists because the tech industry is standard-less. No formal education needed, no formal training requirement, no apprenticeship, no software building code, no professional organization. Resumes have never been a good predictor of success - and why would they be?? Even if they're truthful and it's "impressive looking", that doesn't give you any assurance of knowledge, of who they learned under, wha…
I have no data to lean on other than my experience and intuition but I’d say that’s not the case. My domain is corporate finance, which encompasses a lot of structured roles and certifications, yet I consistently feel the Resume is just a poor device for making any judgement calls. Having people summarize their career into 1-2 pages of bullet points just doesn’t mean much. Especially now that keyword packing is a thi…
The problem is we have too many applicants to phone screen them all. For a lot of jobs today you end up with 10,000 applications, which is why these automated resume-skimming systems exist, but unfortunately this page shows how they basically don't work
Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88
#373HackerRank CTO & author of this repo here There's no better feeling than building something open source and watching it take off. Nine months ago, I built a simple hiring agent to solve one very real problem. Things it is not: It's not an ATS. We don't use it to screen our open roles. Our customers don't use it either. Here's what it is: Every year at HackerRank, we get 50,000 to 60,000 intern applications. No human…
>>It 's not an ATS.
>>No human can read that many resumes well. So I built something to rank them, helping me decide which resumes to read first
Translation: it's an ATS.
>>the system was designed to rank resumes, not reject them
>>Only resumes at the very bottom of the distribution were filtered out
Translation: it was designed to reject the CVs
Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88
#374> I fail 65% of the time. Same exact resume, different luck. As someone who’s run hiring pipelines for technical roles in the past few years, that’s actually a fantastic number. I objectively hate saying that, but it’s true. 35% chance of elevating a technical individual to the next stage with no effort? I’ve seen as many as 100+ applicants an hour even when including a domain specific screener question. That’s 35 “s…
In that case, I have a pre-screening system to sell you. Through state of the art technology, it only lets through the best* 1% of applications. *According to our proprietary, undisclosed, non-deterministic metric, which may or may not be Math.random
I worked at a startup that judged their hiring pipeline quality using rejection rate criteria.
Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88
#375This word (determinism) has a magical effect of warping any online posts it touches. Once you hear it you can almost guarantee it's going to be misguided. At least this time it's actual determinism (same input = same output), not arbitrary unrelated things. Determinism matters for reproducibility, but do you really want these outputs to be reproducible in this particular case? Making LLM outputs deterministic is rela…
This. Human judges and examiners are famously not deterministic even though we would wish it were so - we've probably all heard the thing of harsher sentences being given in the hour before lunch.
> harsher sentences being given in the hour before lunch.
Implicit bias theory sparked a massive number of studies that suggested everything influenced you from the color of the room, to what the person said to you before entering.
It’s been really hard to replicate and the conclusions that have been drawn are contradictory.
Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even then it's deterministic in the way a hash function is deterministic. Change one letter and you can get a completely different output. What people actually want is something continuous.
Agreed on the desire for continuous behavior. That said, in a modern LLM, is this hash analogy accurate? I would be surprised if a single letter changed most zero temp force ranked outputs. E.g: “Where is the Eiffel Tower Located? One word only.” “Where is the Effel Tower located? One word only.” “Where is the Eiffel Tower located? One wor only.” I’d be very surprised if those got different answers from even a small…
For a single word response, perhaps.
But for anything else I wouldn't.
The entire chain will be affected from the different tokenization on down. Even if it lands in roughly the same semantic area, it doesn't mean it will land there with anything like the same syntactic selections. Anywhere there were multiple near-tokens could easily select a different route based on even minor fluctuations in the starting conditions. It's chaotic.
Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88
#377What is an ATS?
Why is it so hard to write out an acronym once...
Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88
#378This insanity only exists because the tech industry is standard-less. No formal education needed, no formal training requirement, no apprenticeship, no software building code, no professional organization. Resumes have never been a good predictor of success - and why would they be?? Even if they're truthful and it's "impressive looking", that doesn't give you any assurance of knowledge, of who they learned under, wha…
Do you think fields that have formal criteria don’t use resumes with keywords? I bet Lawyers look for school names and big law firms all the time.
Credentialing helps maintain a quality floor. Does this person have basic employable skill? Nothing more. It actually doesn’t help you identify levels of talent and skill which is a universal hiring problem.
We do have a credential - a CS degree. And you can see it is a mixed signal. Employers can choose of their own free will to take risks on employees that do have this credential, or not.
Mandating by law that you must have a CS degree doesn’t seem to help our field as we famously have high performers across the spectrum of formal education.
Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88
#379And this + the tendency for AI to "prefer" AI produced code + some other AI biased is why *this is most likely highly illegal to use in the EU due to violating anti discrimination laws in multiple ways. To be clear: - randomly filtering "too many" resumes is pretty much allowed (I think) - but must be actual random independent of the resume (and can be in multiple layers, i.e. random filter > pre-select > random filt…
Everything is correlated to everything [1]. Which means there's a good chance this is somehow correlated in one way or another to race/gender/other protected classes in the US, just by the math of everything being correlated to everything. Which means this is one good lawsuit away from being illegal in the US as well. It doesn't even necessarily have to "win", just do well enough in court to scare away anyone else fr…
>Which means there's a good chance this is somehow correlated in one way or another to race/gender/other protected classes in the US, just by the math of everything being correlated to everything.
>Which means this is one good lawsuit away from being illegal in the US as well.
Uhh.. what? No that doesn't follow at all.
Screening resumes in a way that correlates to race, gender, etc. is not illegal. This is a fundamental distinction. The law is you cannot use those as filters. But the outcomes likely will be correlated. In fact to ensure they are not correlated you'd have to break the law and control for race, gender etc. Which is racism.
The models dont even get race as an input. If they did and they used it to select then yeah, that lawsuit sounds like it has merit. But a mere correlation in outcomes? In no way illegal what-so-ever.
Re: HackerRank open sourced its ATS. My resume scored 90/100. Oh wait 74. No – 88
#380Yep, any day now AI is going to be so good we'll never need to think again. What's that, it's just a really expensive random number generator?