Data centers trigger voter backlash • Hacker News Board

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#371

Post by ghaff » Sat, Jun 27, 2026, 12:07 PM UTC

cogman10 wrote: post #182

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's less about what data centers are and more about what they represent. * The lack of care of governments of the people's will: they're opposed nearly everywhere but city governments get them done anyway, oftentimes while ignoring more important local problems * The intrusion of the wealthy/big tech into people's lives. Large tech companies tend to be like insurance companies: they just appear out of the et…

> I think it's less about what data centers are and more about what they represent. I don't really agree with that. Like I agree with you that these things represent a lot of things people hate. But what they are also matters. Amazon warehouses represent pretty much all the same things here, but people don't get mad at them because what they are is storage for products and jobs for the local community. They are thing…

In smaller towns, many people absolutely do have an issue with distribution centers that will probably increase local traffic.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#372

Post by BigTTYGothGF » Sat, Jun 27, 2026, 12:36 PM UTC

xienze wrote: post #268

BigTTYGothGF wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people on UBI are also rather useless UBI is going to get us a lot more artists of all kinds.

We currently have a not-insignificant population living the UBI dream. No job, section 8 housing, food stamps, free healthcare via going to the emergency room for everything and not simply not paying, as well as other social programs. What great art are these folks producing since they aren't burdened by having to work to survive? Mumble rap on Soundcloud? Shitty graffiti on every building?

This is a take about as detached from the actual situation as Reagan's "cadillac-driving welfare queen" was.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#373

Post by bryan_w » Sat, Jun 27, 2026, 12:41 PM UTC

foltik wrote: post #314

jatora wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a fool's errand to believe populaces resist data centers, or take up issues in general, for any of the rational reasons you listed. It's propaganda using m legacy/social media to fuel movements. The only question is who the propaganda is from. The boogeyman guess would be China but i honestly have no clue. Either way, when you engage most of those against data centers, their positions are generally basel…

What positions did you hear and conclude were baseless?

Anything having to do with water

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#374

Post by ghaff » Sat, Jun 27, 2026, 1:10 PM UTC

oatmeal1 wrote: post #335

adamsb6 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a voter who prefers we establish rules that be followed rather than encumber every project with a lengthy community dialogue.

In general yes, but a datacenter is to many people a categorically different kind of development because they oppose AI companies. The first datacenter should trigger a lengthy discussion and create rules that apply to all further datacenters.

It's likely the general public has very little in the way of an opinion about "AI companies."

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#375

Post by ghaff » Sat, Jun 27, 2026, 1:17 PM UTC

dwb wrote: post #367

esikich wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you vote for the new McDonalds that got built? The new strip mall? The new apartment complex? The new water treatment plant that makes noise and stinks? The new metal shop? The new gas station? Let's start voting on everything and see how that goes. But we obviously don't because that's fucking stupid.

I don’t think dismissing direct democracy as “fucking stupid” is the kind of constructive commentary this site is after. It’s a complex issue and I wouldn’t advocate for it claiming it would fix everything, but in the representative democracy that we (supposedly) have, and the representatives that we tend to get, often cowed or corrupted by huge corporate interests, is it surprising that people want to take some infl…

And, in fact, the town where I live in the northeast does have a lot of issues voted on in town meetings by the residents who attend. Not every little detail certainly. But zoning changes, budgets, etc. yes. (Not that our infrastructure would presumably support one but I'd expect a datacenter proposal would be voted down.)

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#376

Post by spongebobstoes » Sat, Jun 27, 2026, 1:44 PM UTC

Timon3 wrote: post #231

spongebobstoes wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is the same argument against the printing press, photography, home printers, youtube, etc it is a bad argument. more accessible tools consistently lead to more creation in a positive way

There is a fundamental difference between those technologies and generative AI. I ask again: what stops companies from creating literally dozens, hundreds or thousands of copies of any creative work you publish? Why shouldn't they create AI artists that copy small artists in a "legally distinct" manner, and at a volume that drowns them out? As these models get better and better, the only limiting factor is the availa…

copyright law stops illegal copying

you are worrying about a hypothetical without precedent. all past evidence is that new creative tools are good

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#377

Post by spongebobstoes » Sat, Jun 27, 2026, 1:53 PM UTC

munificent wrote: post #136

spongebobstoes wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

discovery has always been the problem with art. many people are instrinsically motivated to create, that's why we have so much art AI is orthogonal to human connection. people like people

> AI is orthogonal to human connection. No two things are truly orthogonal when you have to spend time to use either of them. An hour conversing with ChatGPT is an hour of your life unavailable for talking to a human.

it is nonsense that talking to ChatGPT must reduce human connection

talking to ChatGPT helps me get work done faster, so I have more time for people

cooking a meal for my friends before they arrive for dinner increases connection

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#378

Post by anthonypasq » Sat, Jun 27, 2026, 2:15 PM UTC

rescripting wrote: post #189

anthonypasq wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry. People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their proper…

This may come as a surprise to you, but people like living in pleasant surroundings. Just because I own the land does not mean I can open an abattoir next to an elementary school. Using land in different ways results in externalities that affect those around it. The people of a community should have some right to protect themselves from those externalities. How that happens in practice is a deeply flawed, messy, ugly…

Japan has essentially no local zoning laws and things work perfectly fine.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#379

Post by anthonypasq » Sat, Jun 27, 2026, 2:18 PM UTC

_doctor_love wrote: post #218

anthonypasq wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry. People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their proper…

Your argument makes sense until you have a horrible neighbor. You can see it in action in a state like Montana which to my knowledge prohibits housing covenants. Want to park 12 cars that are rusting in your front yard? Do it! Neighbors can't do anything about it. But that does have the effect of lowering property value and degrading the neighborhood.

you are the problem. your neighbor isnt doing anything illegal, they are just annoying you. why on earth would you think you should be able to do anything about it?

again, owning a piece of property doesnt give you influence over the people around you if they arent doing anything illegal.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#380

Post by anthonypasq » Sat, Jun 27, 2026, 2:23 PM UTC

AngryData wrote: post #309

anthonypasq wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why do we give a shit what voters think should happen on someone else's property again?

Because what your neighbors do on their property effects you on your property. That is why zoning and permitting exists.

defending the existing zoning and permitting regime will get your no where with me unfortunately. if we dismantled local control of those 2 things the majority of this countries problems would go away.