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VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

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Re: VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

#371

Post by dryarzeg »

alexjameson wrote: post #370
dryarzeg wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know all of that. I'm a native Russian speaker and I have quite a lot of Russian friends, I'm pretty well aware of the situation. Nevertheless, despite all the government’s efforts and the enormous amount of money invested in this, there are still - at least for now - ways to bypass the blocks even there. I suspect that as long as they don’t physically cut the cables, there will always be ways to circumvent censors…

OK, got it. But it's important to remember that avoiding restrictions gets harder and harder every year. You have to juggle several protocols, have backup proxies, think about TLS nuances, keep in mind that you are being tracked after all. Lots of casual users just gave up. It's not like we find a solution and it just works — one has to adapt to new restrictive measures continuously. I just don't understand why some…

> But it's important to remember that avoiding restrictions gets harder and harder every year.

Yes, that's right. Now the only reliable protocols to communicate with my friends in Russia seem to be e-mail ones like SMTP, because everything else constantly gets interrupted if not blocked completely. The only thing we can hope for here is that sooner or later, that hell will finally end; we just need to do what we do.

> I just don't understand why some other people in such discussions still think that its only about children and weigh pro and cons when they have an actual example of all these things being implemented.

Maybe I'm being kind of rude, but to me that seems just like... for the lack of better words, it seems like they're in denial. In a psychological sense, I mean.

Re: VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

#372

Post by dghlsakjg »

inigyou wrote: post #338
dghlsakjg wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn’t age verification. It’s an api for reporting unverified age data. It’s basically parental controls standardized.

Yes. And that's the proposal that doesn't give anyone access to identifiable information. Well, in California it's not a proposal, it's the law.

It also doesn't give any actual age verification information. Verified age is not the same thing as self reported age.

If a kid can figure out how to click "yes, I am an adult" on a website, they can definitely figure out how to do the same thing when they turn on their phone the first time.

Re: VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

#373

Post by oliwarner »

braiamp wrote: post #179
oliwarner wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social media got worse. We've had time to witness the damage of a dopamine-doomscroll. I personally know children who've posted too much, and children who've been solicited directly by adults, both to try and meet and for nudes. And we've seen the complete lack of positive action from platforms. Roblox is full of paedophiles and Grok was letting you nudify your classmates just a few months ago. These places aren't su…

I love how every harm you listed, is a platform design problem, and your fix touches none of it. A kid bypassing VPN age checks can still doomscroll and Roblox all day on a school wifi with no VPN at all. The only thing you've actually accomplished is stripping privacy and security from every adult who isn't a child abuser, to feel like you did something about the ones who are.

I don't believe proving I'm an adult to Meta will deprived me of any further privacy than I've already surrendered. What security do you feel I'll lose?

These "platform design problems" are features for some adults. If they want to pour their life into being radicalised by a neverending, bias-confirming, slop-filled doom scroll, that's their choice, isn't it? Outright prohibition is far more fraught both politically and technically.

Blocking 100% of kids isn't required to prevent harm. The key is finding the optimum balance.

Re: VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

#374

Post by CamperBob2 »

dryarzeg wrote: post #371
alexjameson wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, got it. But it's important to remember that avoiding restrictions gets harder and harder every year. You have to juggle several protocols, have backup proxies, think about TLS nuances, keep in mind that you are being tracked after all. Lots of casual users just gave up. It's not like we find a solution and it just works — one has to adapt to new restrictive measures continuously. I just don't understand why some…

> But it's important to remember that avoiding restrictions gets harder and harder every year. Yes, that's right. Now the only reliable protocols to communicate with my friends in Russia seem to be e-mail ones like SMTP, because everything else constantly gets interrupted if not blocked completely. The only thing we can hope for here is that sooner or later, that hell will finally end; we just need to do what we do.…

Maybe I'm being kind of rude, but to me that seems just like... for the lack of better words, it seems like they're in denial. In a psychological sense, I mean.

There's a larger phenomenon than simple denial at work. Infantilization of adults is a necessary component of fascism. We are told, implicitly, that we are all the children of the state. Those who accept that message -- and there will always be some -- will embrace the protection promised by authoritarianism.

The actual children are, as always, just along for the ride.

Re: VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

#375

Post by CamperBob2 »

oceanplexian wrote: post #278
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see, the problem is that all exit points of our VPNs are in Europe. These too can be banned quite easily. Where to will we run next, given that this cancer tends to spread?

One solution is that United States radically supports free speech and provides Starlink access to Europeans as a humanitarian act. It would be similar to Radio Free Europe which was broadcast to the former Soviet States.

It would be more like WWII-era Deutsche Welle, given who runs Starlink. Sites offensive to the Minister of Mechapropaganda might find themselves filtered.

Re: VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

#376

Post by dryarzeg »

yurish wrote: post #366
dryarzeg wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm... That's interesting. Maybe that depends on ISP, because my friends have told me they can't use Tor because they can't even bootstrap, even if they're using bridges.

I changed ISPs when moved from one city to another, no difference. Yes, there were several episodes when connecting required about half an hour of playing changing setting but eventually I could connect. Nowadays it seems that the government abandoned their efforts to block Tor traffic and mainly focused on blocking VPN and Telegram.

Now that (abandoning the efforts to block Tor so now it mostly works) sounds like some good news to me! Can you please share your settings or what exactly you use that works for you? Perhaps they will help my friends, too, because previously, they relied on Tor to circumvent the "network blockade", but it just stopped working for them at some point. And yes, they tried to play with settings as well but it didn't really help.

By the way, the level of ban enforcement can also vary from region to region regardless of ISPs (at least that's what I heard from some people), but anyway...

Re: VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

#377

Post by braiamp »

oliwarner wrote: post #373
braiamp wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how every harm you listed, is a platform design problem, and your fix touches none of it. A kid bypassing VPN age checks can still doomscroll and Roblox all day on a school wifi with no VPN at all. The only thing you've actually accomplished is stripping privacy and security from every adult who isn't a child abuser, to feel like you did something about the ones who are.

I don't believe proving I'm an adult to Meta will deprived me of any further privacy than I've already surrendered. What security do you feel I'll lose? These "platform design problems" are features for some adults. If they want to pour their life into being radicalised by a neverending, bias-confirming, slop-filled doom scroll, that's their choice, isn't it? Outright prohibition is far more fraught both politically…

You've already surrendered your privacy to Meta, sure, this has nothing to do with Meta. This is your VPN, the one thing you use because you don't trust your ISP or the wifi you're on, now wanting your real ID before it works. A kid doesn't even need a VPN to doomscroll on school wifi anyway. And "let adults radicalize themselves, their choice" is rich when those adults vote and raise kids and show up swinging at school board meetings. Congrats on the policy that needed my ID and did nothing to the kid two desks over.

Re: VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

#378

Post by kyboren »

inigyou wrote: post #363
kyboren wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody has a right to unrestricted tobacco stores. Everybody has a right to free speech, and free speech frequently requires anonymous speech. This is why the protection of journalists' sources is so important, and why principled journalists are willing to go to jail to protect them. You yearn for the end and couldn't care less about the means. But there are also those who couldn't care less about the end, but yearn…

Why don't I have a right to unrestricted tobacco stores and gambling? Pornography is a form of speech btw.

> Why don't I have a right to unrestricted tobacco stores and gambling?

Because--unlike free speech--those are not essential to freedom and democracy.

Care to answer my questions?

Re: VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

#379

Post by oliwarner »

braiamp wrote: post #377
oliwarner wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe proving I'm an adult to Meta will deprived me of any further privacy than I've already surrendered. What security do you feel I'll lose? These "platform design problems" are features for some adults. If they want to pour their life into being radicalised by a neverending, bias-confirming, slop-filled doom scroll, that's their choice, isn't it? Outright prohibition is far more fraught both politically…

You've already surrendered your privacy to Meta, sure, this has nothing to do with Meta. This is your VPN, the one thing you use because you don't trust your ISP or the wifi you're on, now wanting your real ID before it works. A kid doesn't even need a VPN to doomscroll on school wifi anyway. And "let adults radicalize themselves, their choice" is rich when those adults vote and raise kids and show up swinging at sch…

You're lost. The whole basis of this discussion is that is that certain services (porn, social media) will have to AV. A kid having open network access doesn't help because they still have that interface to overcome.

Services that enable circumvention is a natural extension. Yes that means going through the same verification process you do with pornhub with your VPN host.

Completely by-the-by, your school networking experience is notably different from mine. Ours are locked down. Kids don't get access on their own devices. They whitelist domains, Google has educational filters, etc, etc. Could somebody red team their way through it? Maybe. Kids aren't.

Re: VPN ban update for UK households as government looks at 'age-gate'

#380

Post by HDBaseT »

LadyCailin wrote: post #284
umvi wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ban infinite scroll? Sounds like a slippery slope and also hard to enforce. I don't even know how you would craft such a law.

The same way you do age assurance laws, I guess.

On the fly with legislation that actively harms privacy whilst also not protecting anyone at all?

Australia did this, now everything is worse with no tangible improvement to "child safety" or protection from brainrot.

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