Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

gavinray97.github.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

371–380 of 452 posts

Re: Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

#371

Post by shrubby »

hnlmorg wrote: post #323
TylerE wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was only using your own framing. You're the one who lazered in on health . > What’s healthy isn’t complete abstinence, it’s moderation. With alcohol this is well established to be false. https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-... https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h... (Headline: "Drinking alcohol is a health risk regardless of the amount.")

> I was only using your own framing. You're the one who lazered in on health. Actually no I wasn't. It was shrubby who mentioned "health" in the medical sense. I was replying to them using "health" in the social wellness sense. ie making the point that "health" is a nuanced term and shouldn't be used in an absolute way like they, and yourself now too, have done. Health isn't just about physicality. There are social a…

I'm tempted to start the full deontology and Jellinek model on substance abuse on this, but don't have the effort now.

If we perform a cost benefit analysis on alcohol the downsides are plentiful and then some.

And the pluses are practically masked versions (taste, buzz,...) of the two major things that make human do anything: what others are doing and what I'm used to (which are pretty shit reasons to do anything IMO) it basically boils down to addiction. Not chemical, but functional and social.

Then we return to the cost benefit analysis and start figuring out how far the lying disease has progressed. The fierceness of the debate feels like a good indicator of this usually.

I'd be tempted to explain this more in depth, but I have stuff to do.

Re: Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

#372

Post by onraglanroad »

ramon156 wrote: post #277
qingcharles wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You're absolutely right for pushing back on that!"

I want a "You're absolutely right to be upset!" printed on a shirt.

You're absolutely right to be upset by this t-shirt!

Re: Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

#373

Post by hnlmorg »

shrubby wrote: post #371
hnlmorg wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was only using your own framing. You're the one who lazered in on health. Actually no I wasn't. It was shrubby who mentioned "health" in the medical sense. I was replying to them using "health" in the social wellness sense. ie making the point that "health" is a nuanced term and shouldn't be used in an absolute way like they, and yourself now too, have done. Health isn't just about physicality. There are social a…

I'm tempted to start the full deontology and Jellinek model on substance abuse on this, but don't have the effort now. If we perform a cost benefit analysis on alcohol the downsides are plentiful and then some. And the pluses are practically masked versions (taste, buzz,...) of the two major things that make human do anything: what others are doing and what I'm used to (which are pretty shit reasons to do anything IM…

I actually don’t disagree with some of that. But that’s not the point I was discussing.

Let me put it another way: banning something that most people use sensibly and enjoy in moderation isn’t a society that anyone wants to live in nor should live in. I'm sure you'd be the first to complain if the government went after something you enjoyed that caused harm to a minority of other people.

Which is why I keep coming back to the cake analogy. The only reason people eat cake is because of the buzz and taste. Which are pretty shit reasons to do anything in your opinion. And people do get addicted to sugary snacks. Some people even eat for comfort. But a lot of other people do have self-control. Should we ban cake for everyone regardless? Of course not!

As I said in my earlier comment, the problem with substance abuse isn’t the alcohol. The alcohol is just a tool. If you banned alcohol today then people who want escapism will switch to something else. And we’ve seen this trend time and time again throughout history. And it's what any experienced doctor of medicine will also tell you.

So if you want to understand the problems of alcohol abuse better, you need to first understand what drove people to abuse alcohol. Banning alcohol isn’t a shortcut to solving that problem -- despite how much you might like it to be.

Also accusing all people who drink, even those who only do so occasionally, as being addicts (as you literally have done) is so far wrong that it’s just insulting.

Re: Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

#374

Post by _heimdall »

bko wrote: post #321
_heimdall wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This question jumps past the more fundamental question of whether policymakers, and the government in general, should prevent people from making their own choices. Education is a very different story which ends with letting people make their own decisions after (hopefully) having more information about realistic outcomes. I don't personally want a government preventing me from making my own choices. That line is blur…

> This question jumps past the more fundamental question of whether policymakers, and the government in general, should prevent people from making their own choices. When your choices include terrorizing businesses and being a public nuisance to everyone else, then yes, government should prevent people from making those choices.

We already have laws for theft and similar crimes. You don't need a government creating more rules preventing entire categories of choices from being made, especially if they already can't enforce the laws on the books.

Re: Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

#375

Post by estearum »

embedding-shape wrote: post #367
estearum wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cities that Americans travel to in order to experience quaint and whimsical urban environments? I don't think any city in Europe is as anti-human as your standard American metro, suburb, or small town. Also: European metro areas are full of two-wheeled not-motorcycles, like the Honda above.

> I don't think any city in Europe is as anti-human as your standard American metro, suburb, or small town. Agreed > Also: European metro areas are full of two-wheeled not-motorcycles, like the Honda above. Not the European metropolitan area I live right next to and travel to/from, they are proper motorcycles, who also travel on the highway, which isn't legal for the "two-wheeled not-motorcycles" you talk about. It's…

It has nothing to do with awareness.

Your point is that there are cities that are full of motorcycles. My point is: sure, but most of those in most cities are not the 1000cc+ motorcycles Americans are typically referring to, and even if they are, a city full of motorcycles is a completely different risk environment from a city that is not full of motorcycles.

The bikes, usage patterns, and environment are all totally different. It's obviously silly to act like they're not.

Re: Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

#376

Post by cindyllm »

shrubby wrote: post #371
hnlmorg wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was only using your own framing. You're the one who lazered in on health. Actually no I wasn't. It was shrubby who mentioned "health" in the medical sense. I was replying to them using "health" in the social wellness sense. ie making the point that "health" is a nuanced term and shouldn't be used in an absolute way like they, and yourself now too, have done. Health isn't just about physicality. There are social a…

I'm tempted to start the full deontology and Jellinek model on substance abuse on this, but don't have the effort now. If we perform a cost benefit analysis on alcohol the downsides are plentiful and then some. And the pluses are practically masked versions (taste, buzz,...) of the two major things that make human do anything: what others are doing and what I'm used to (which are pretty shit reasons to do anything IM…

[dead]

Re: Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

#377

Post by hluska »

_heimdall wrote: post #308
kbenson wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost everything is a choice. The difference is that sometimes you're making a rational one and sometimes you only think you're making a rational one and to outsiders and in retrospect it obviously wasn't the best choice, or event a good choice. There are two aspects to the type of question that was asked. How do you prevent people from ha I g to make choices which are rational and good for their options but still r…

This question jumps past the more fundamental question of whether policymakers, and the government in general, should prevent people from making their own choices. Education is a very different story which ends with letting people make their own decisions after (hopefully) having more information about realistic outcomes. I don't personally want a government preventing me from making my own choices. That line is blur…

The question was simply how to avoid people falling through the cracks. That was it and while not worded all that well, it was a noble question.

It didn’t need that level of sermon. Every reasonably educated person got your point after the first sentence.

Re: Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

#378

Post by ndcnncbf »

_heimdall wrote: post #374
bko wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This question jumps past the more fundamental question of whether policymakers, and the government in general, should prevent people from making their own choices. When your choices include terrorizing businesses and being a public nuisance to everyone else, then yes, government should prevent people from making those choices.

We already have laws for theft and similar crimes. You don't need a government creating more rules preventing entire categories of choices from being made, especially if they already can't enforce the laws on the books.

[flagged]

Re: Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

#379

Post by nunez »

> Working at Techtonic was the best possible early-career experience I think anyone could have had. They did contract development, a lot of which was greenfield Saas MVP launches, across various tech stacks. There was not a lot of time for mentorship so it a very "trial-by-fire" experience -- either figure things out and ship stuff, or get the boot.

I *always* tell older people looking to switch into tech to start at agencies/contracting firms for this reason.

They are much more likely to hire people without experience, invest in your training (even if it's training by fire), and because they are usually heavy cert-driven, they'll pay for certs as well.

It doesn't pay well, and the work can be brutal (nights and weekends; on-call) but it's a great way to get the experience needed to get the job that does if you're starting from zero.

Re: Building from zero after addiction, prison, and a felony

#380

Post by le-mark »

gavinray wrote: post #337
13hours wrote: post #274

Many very interesting stories here of people that took similar paths. As the parent of a teenager that used to be an absolute model student, but recently (last year) started rebellious behaviour, tanking their academics with it, I'm curious how many with similar stories think they would have or could have taken a different path with better or different parental support? We're trying our very best to support and guide…

> I'm curious how many with similar stories think they would have or could have taken a different path with better or different parental support? I'm sorry to hear about your kid. I'll be honest with you: it depends almost wholly on their disposition when it comes to reinforcement style. I only respond to extreme, repeated negative reinforcement. Positive reinforcement never did anything for me. If your child respond…

> If you want the nuclear option, can you move away from the current environment?

The common refrain here is usually they can find a bad environment anywhere so just moving won’t solve the problem. Unless it’s really remote, and home schooling. Which would not be healthy for anyone imo.

Post reply on HN