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DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent

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Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent

#371

Post by throwa356262 »

throwburn202605 wrote: post #237
missedthecue wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They haven't raised enough money to be selling at a loss. And selling at a loss to gain market share in an industry with zero switching friction between sellers is not a strategy. That doesn't make sense. Loss leading only works when - it leads to a situation that allows you to prevent competitors from selling to your customers (gilded age railroad and pipeline industries are great examples). Then you can eventually…

Maybe Anthropics efforts to thwart deepseek from distilling their model is bearing fruit. So their strategy now is to try get as much raw content for their inference. You're being "paid", via discount, for your use

From Antropics own report:

"DeepSeek

Scale: Over 150,000 exchanges"

Doesn't sound like much of distilling. Maybe they are runnung benchmarks?

Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent

#372

Post by neya »

This is the best news ever. Been building with Claude Code + Deepseek and it has blown me away. $10 gets me ENTIRE PROJECTs. Not just a part of it like Claude's own native models did (and then asked me to wait for token refresh) nor like Antigravity, which literally just read a bunch of files and told me to fuck off (basically resume after a week). Atleast it gave me an implementation_plan.md.

OF course I understand this won't be "permanent" permanent. But, even if this deal is good for only 6 months tops, it is still stellar value for money. $10 a month to automate bulk of my grunt work? That's insane.

Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent

#373

Post by nicbou »

skiing_crawling wrote: post #369

I’m worried about giving a foreign hosted service access to my machine for a coding agent that can run arbitrary commands and read arbitrary files. Coding agent are much more useless if you have to sit there clicking approve on everything.

To many of us, American models are also foreign-hosted, and in an increasingly hostile nation.

Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent

#375

Post by manyatoms »

jm_l wrote: post #353
margalabargala wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Put another way: if the average US citizen doesn't subsidize the costs of these trillion dollar companies, China is gonna come get you. The future is blatantly going to be electric. Between cars, heat pumps, ranges, etc, the quantity of kilowatt hours consumed will rise dramatically per capita because they are replacing burned fossil fuels. We don't need to subsidize the trillion dollar companies, we can settle for…

All public infrastructure benefits the public but the role of our governance is to correctly prioritize. $100 billion spent on nuclear power plants is $100 billion being withheld from other critical social services.

The US could very causally spend a couple $100B less on their military and not have a real reduction in capability.

Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent

#376

Post by seviu »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #343
bcrosby95 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put another way: if the average US citizen doesn't subsidize the costs of these trillion dollar companies, China is gonna come get you. Funny that you talk about being afraid of your own shadow. I have some exposure to utility regulation and from what I can tell some of the AI companies are "good actors" and willing to shoulder some of the burden. But others are pretty adversarial and want a free lunch.

Power is foundational to pretty much everything. Cheap power is going to give China a massive advantage in everything; AI is just incidental.

Cheap power at what cost for our planet?

Not long ago we were crying death to bitcoin, it’s going to destroy the planet.

Come AI, with unlimited power demand. Everybody screaming we need more power.

We need infrastructure, clean energy, even nuclear. We are doing all in the wrong order.

Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent

#377

Post by skiing_crawling »

nicbou wrote: post #373
skiing_crawling wrote: post #369

I’m worried about giving a foreign hosted service access to my machine for a coding agent that can run arbitrary commands and read arbitrary files. Coding agent are much more useless if you have to sit there clicking approve on everything.

To many of us, American models are also foreign-hosted, and in an increasingly hostile nation.

I guess I was speaking as an American, we have good domestically hosted options so although it’s probably not ideal to send this kind of data/control anywhere at all, it’s definitely a worse option for us to send it to china vs to an American company. Every user of this service has made their machines trivially exposed to become a botnet. Im wondering why I don’t see this angle more discussed in here.

Again I’m not saying you should trust an American company necessarily more than a Chinese one, but as an American, I probably can.

Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent

#378

Post by anigbrowl »

fridder wrote: post #360
toddmorey wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like the US for years has operated under the assumption that homeostasis for the global economy would always be “designed in California, assembled in China.” Like there was something in the American DNA that was lacking in China and innovation would always need to happen here. But China it seems doesn’t need the US to produce great cars, devices, robotics, or AI. We absolutely need China to help us build all…

Might be more far to say: they needed the US until they caught up. The massive straight up IP theft helps a lot here. Though theft might be too strong since a lot of companies knew what they were getting in to

Wait until you hear about the history of US industrialization. This trope of 'they stole our ideas' needs to fade away, it's a coping mechanism based on the assumption of inherent superiority of American society rather than the natural wax and wane of civilizations due to varying structural factors.

Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent

#379

Post by coliveira »

jm_l wrote: post #353
margalabargala wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Put another way: if the average US citizen doesn't subsidize the costs of these trillion dollar companies, China is gonna come get you. The future is blatantly going to be electric. Between cars, heat pumps, ranges, etc, the quantity of kilowatt hours consumed will rise dramatically per capita because they are replacing burned fossil fuels. We don't need to subsidize the trillion dollar companies, we can settle for…

All public infrastructure benefits the public but the role of our governance is to correctly prioritize. $100 billion spent on nuclear power plants is $100 billion being withheld from other critical social services.

No, the money is not coming from a fixed box. When the US wants to do something (typically starting a new war), they never ask where the money is coming from. This tells you everything about how the decisions are made, if it is a priority for them, they will spend the money first and ask questions later. If green infrastructure was a real priority they would invest the money and later find ways to pay for it.

Re: DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent

#380

Post by dangus »

fridder wrote: post #360
toddmorey wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like the US for years has operated under the assumption that homeostasis for the global economy would always be “designed in California, assembled in China.” Like there was something in the American DNA that was lacking in China and innovation would always need to happen here. But China it seems doesn’t need the US to produce great cars, devices, robotics, or AI. We absolutely need China to help us build all…

Might be more far to say: they needed the US until they caught up. The massive straight up IP theft helps a lot here. Though theft might be too strong since a lot of companies knew what they were getting in to

At some point we can’t keep blaming IP theft for obvious innovation and investments being made by China.

We also can’t blame subsidy. All countries subsidize their industries.

This video on the auto industry covers a different industry but has a lot of the same rhymes as far as China’s strategy:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=UhhZu0ZHdw4

The gist of it is that China does the following:

1. Treats low margin industries like mining and utilities as areas to focus investment and come up with incremental improvements, making those available to all companies. The West, by contrast, allows private companies to handle those industries, who logically don’t bother investing in them since their investors consider those basic industries to be low-value segments of the production chain. But now we see those advantages in China where investments have been made (e.g., the best battery chemistries and mining/refining, the cheapest power (when was the last time your local utility company focused on reducing pricing?)).

2. Because all companies in China have access to the same excellent infrastructure, they must compete furiously on quality/features/price of their products.

3. China allows foreign competition so long as they operate in China (see: Tesla) further insisting that their domestic products be globally competitive and that foreign products sold in their country benefit their local ecosystem.

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