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Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

elciudadano.com

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Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#371

Post by pimeys »

raron wrote: post #343
childintime wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how can a QR code not supply the necessary data? Example: payment://iban=XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX&amount=12.34EUR Any bank app should be able to read this. What is so complicated? Right, nothing. Credit card companies are a hidden tax, worse, they are a tax on turnover, not profits.

It can, in fact there is even an open standard for that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPC_QR_code By the way credit card companies do a lot more than Wero, SEPA or any other similar instant payment solution (e.g. chargeback).

But in EU you don't usually get credit... The cards are often debit only. Yes, credit cards do exist but they are not like the american cards, and things like chargebacks are not super simple. I for example haven't had a credit card over a decade now...

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#372

Post by raron »

pimeys wrote: post #371
raron wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can, in fact there is even an open standard for that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPC_QR_code By the way credit card companies do a lot more than Wero, SEPA or any other similar instant payment solution (e.g. chargeback).

But in EU you don't usually get credit... The cards are often debit only. Yes, credit cards do exist but they are not like the american cards, and things like chargebacks are not super simple. I for example haven't had a credit card over a decade now...

Chargebacks exists for (EU style) debit cards, too. It doesn't need to be simple just available, so if the merchant disappears with your money or someone uses your stolen card, there is a way you can get your money back. With bank transfers that's not possible (at least here).

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#373

Post by reese_john »

vitorgrs wrote: post #351
reese_john wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Banco Central controls the core, and that's all it needs to. This is good design. Descentralized, modern, resilient and efficient. I agree. But was that not the case before Pix/SPI? It really didn’t change the status quo. The STR (transfer reserve system), which SPI is still fully dependent in practice btw, is decentralized, modern and efficient. The biggest change here was scale and adoption by private banks and e…

It was not. TED had to talk with banks, only the final settlement went thought Central Bank. With Pix, banks don't talk with each other. They are basically using Central Bank API to send and receive money. before it was Bank Z ---> Bank Y With Pix it's Bank X ---> SPI/BC ---> Bank B

I don’t even understand what you mean by “banks had to talk to each other” and why you are referring to TED in the past tense when it’s still the largest settlement method by BRL amount

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#374

Post by raron »

Pooge wrote: post #349
raron wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A payment should be a bank transfer. Anything more complicated is just something that is to be exploited by middle-men. I disagree with that. Payments (especially online and contactless ones) should have some form of buyer protection, chargeback and a way to handle fraudulent transaction, lost / stolen cards, etc.

> buyer protection, chargeback and a way to handle fraudulent transaction There is; it's called a bank.

Maybe that's changes by country, but here bank transfers are basically final and can not be cancelled or recalled. Why would a bank cover your losses from their profits?

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#375

Post by vitorgrs »

reese_john wrote: post #373
vitorgrs wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was not. TED had to talk with banks, only the final settlement went thought Central Bank. With Pix, banks don't talk with each other. They are basically using Central Bank API to send and receive money. before it was Bank Z ---> Bank Y With Pix it's Bank X ---> SPI/BC ---> Bank B

I don’t even understand what you mean by “banks had to talk to each other” and why you are referring to TED in the past tense when it’s still the largest settlement method by BRL amount

Because TED is not the only way to send money now...? It's basically legacy, although yes, still used. Very rare you'll see Person to person/business using TED. Basically business to person...

And yes, literally banks had to "talk" with each other. Which is why it was paid and slower in first place and didn't worked 24/7.

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#376

Post by reese_john »

vitorgrs wrote: post #375
reese_john wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t even understand what you mean by “banks had to talk to each other” and why you are referring to TED in the past tense when it’s still the largest settlement method by BRL amount

Because TED is not the only way to send money now...? It's basically legacy, although yes, still used. Very rare you'll see Person to person/business using TED. Basically business to person... And yes, literally banks had to "talk" with each other. Which is why it was paid and slower in first place and didn't worked 24/7.

I suggest you go read the SFN messaging manuals from BCB if you truly want to understand how interbank communication works. It is very well documented.

You clearly don’t know what you are talking about since you are conflating the STR (transfer reserve system) with TED (one of the many settlement methods in STR)

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#377

Post by sfifs »

WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #152

I can see that Visa and Mastercard are freaking out, not because Pix can take over their business model, but because it can give ideas to other countries doing the same. I've spent three months earlier this year in Brazil and never used Pix once. Not because I didn't want, but because I couldn't, or let's be honest: my time was not worth the hassle. To be able to pay with Pix, one needs to get a CPF (Brazilian Tax ID…

Visa and Master have basically lost the enormous India market outside of credit card business when UPI was more or less mandated by the Indian Reserve Bank and really took off during COVID. Now these regional payment networks are starting to be interconnected like UPI with Singapore's NETS etc. This must be driving intense paranoia among payment networks.

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#378

Post by vitorgrs »

reese_john wrote: post #376
vitorgrs wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because TED is not the only way to send money now...? It's basically legacy, although yes, still used. Very rare you'll see Person to person/business using TED. Basically business to person... And yes, literally banks had to "talk" with each other. Which is why it was paid and slower in first place and didn't worked 24/7.

I suggest you go read the SFN messaging manuals from BCB if you truly want to understand how interbank communication works. It is very well documented. You clearly don’t know what you are talking about since you are conflating the STR (transfer reserve system) with TED (one of the many settlement methods in STR)

Obviously there's several other ways to send money. I'm talking about the popular ones... The others are niche-systems.

And yes, in TED only the final settlement were done by BCB.

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#379

Post by cassianoleal »

zinekeller wrote: post #85
neves wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, It is perder of magnitude different. I've noticed it when I gave small money for a beggar using pix. It's really revolutionary. And remember that credit card fees are greater in Brazil

I won't dispute you or even cassianoleal, but compared to how was US in 2005 (just barely finishing check/que digitalization), Brazil is indeed faster in this forefront (and it enabled the creation of Pix in the first place).

It doesn't sound like you're disputing me in any way! You're actually saying the same thing as I did. :)

Re: Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard

#380

Post by ric2b »

fmobus wrote: post #65
mrkramer wrote: post #7

Pix is for domestic use right? So tourists who come to Brazil still use Visa and Mastercard as well as Brazilian tourists who travel abroad. Visa and Mastercard are companies of the past, crypto and stablecoins will destroy them sooner or later.

How many transactions can you ran per second on major coins like BTC?

Depends on what you mean, if using batching technologies like Lightning Network it is theoretically unlimited.

If you mean on the globally replicated and stored forever blockchain, I think it's 50/s or something like that.

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