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I am building a cloud

crawshaw.io

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Re: I am building a cloud

#371

Post by throwaway894345 »

adamtulinius wrote: post #89
dajonker wrote: post #74

> Making Kubernetes good is inherently impossible, a project in putting (admittedly high quality) lipstick on a pig. So well put, my good sir, this describes exactly my feelings with k8s. It always starts off all good with just managing a couple of containers to run your web app. Then before you know it, the devops folks have decided that they need to put a gazillion other services and an entire software-defined netw…

If you spin up Kubernetes for "a couple of containers to run your web app", I think you're doing something wrong in the first place, also coupled with your comment about adding SDN to Kubernetes. People use Kubernetes for way too small things, and it sounds like you don't have the scale for actually running Kubernetes.

Even if using just one VM, I'll probably slap k3s on it and manage my application using manifests. It's just so much easier than dealing with puppet or chef or vanilla cloud-init. Docker compose works too, but at that point it's just easier to stick with k3s and then I can have nice things like background jobs, a straightforward path to HA, access to an ecosystem of existing software, and a nicer CLI.

Re: I am building a cloud

#372

Post by evanphx »

ownagefool wrote: post #232
adamtulinius wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you spin up Kubernetes for "a couple of containers to run your web app", I think you're doing something wrong in the first place, also coupled with your comment about adding SDN to Kubernetes. People use Kubernetes for way too small things, and it sounds like you don't have the scale for actually running Kubernetes.

It depends what you're doing it. My app is fairly simple node process with some side car worker processes. k8s enables me to deploy it 30 times for 30 PRs, trivially, in a standard way, with standard cleanup. Can I do that without k8s? Yes. To the same standard with the same amount of effort? Probably not. Here, I'd argue the k8s APIs and interfaces are better than trying to do this on AWS ( or your preferred cloud p…

Totally, it's all about the primitives. I'm curious where exe.dev is gonna build on the the base, or just leave it up to folks to add all their own bespoke stuff to do containers, logs, etc.

The last 20 years has given us a lot of great primitives for folks to plug in, I think that lots of people don't want to wrangle those primitives, they just want to use them.

Re: I am building a cloud

#373

Post by dionian »

yard2010 wrote: post #96
dajonker wrote: post #74

> Making Kubernetes good is inherently impossible, a project in putting (admittedly high quality) lipstick on a pig. So well put, my good sir, this describes exactly my feelings with k8s. It always starts off all good with just managing a couple of containers to run your web app. Then before you know it, the devops folks have decided that they need to put a gazillion other services and an entire software-defined netw…

I don't get it, I think that k8s is the best software written since win95. It redefines computing in the same way IMHO. I have some experience in working with k8s on prod and I loved every moment of it. I'm definitely missing something.

I noticed in his article he said something like 'and then devops team puts a ton of complexity...' which doesnt seem like a k8s problem.

Re: I am building a cloud

#374

Post by jcgl »

sgt wrote: post #251
tjarjoura wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some sense, Kubernetes is just a portable platform for running Linux services, even on a single node using something like K3s. I almost see it as being an extension of the Linux OS layer.

Then why can't we put a wrapper onto systemd and make that into a light weight k8s?

See Podman quadlets.

Re: I am building a cloud

#375

Post by geodel »

radlad wrote: post #347
geodel wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing Kubernetes like doing Agile is mandatory nowadays. I've been asked to package a 20 line worth of bash script as docker image so it can be delivered via CI/CD pipeline via Kubernetes pods in cloud. Value is not that I got job done at a day's notice. It is black mark that I couldn't package it as per industry best practices. Not doing would mean out of job/work. Whether it is happening correctly is not something…

There are many organizations which still ship software without Kubernetes. Perhaps even the vast majority.

Of course. I used to think I am working for one such organization for long time. Until leadership decided "modernization" as top priority for IT teams as we are lagging far.

Re: I am building a cloud

#376

Post by evanphx »

limaho wrote: post #299
sdevonoes wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends. For personal projects, yeah definitely. But at work? Typically the “Platform” team can only afford to support 1 (maybe 2) ways of deployment, and k8s is quite versatile, so even if you need 1 small service, you’ll go with the self-service-k8s approach your Platform team offers. Because the alternative is for you (or your team) to own the whole infrastructure stack for your new deloyment model (ecs? lambda? W…

This is where I'm at. Using Podman daily to run Python scripts and apps and it's been going great! However trying to build things like monitoring, secure secret injection, centralized inventory, remote logging, etc. has fallen on us. Has lead to some shadow IT (running our own container image registry, hashicorp vault instance, etc.) which makes me hesitant to share with others in the company how we're operating. I l…

Are you doing that across a fleet of machines or just one?

Re: I am building a cloud

#378

Post by rib3ye »

It seems really cool, but the entry-level tier just seems too expensive. I can get a single pain-in-the-ass OVH VPS for $7. I just need something better than that for the same price.

Re: I am building a cloud

#379

Post by throwaway894345 »

tjarjoura wrote: post #243
adamtulinius wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you spin up Kubernetes for "a couple of containers to run your web app", I think you're doing something wrong in the first place, also coupled with your comment about adding SDN to Kubernetes. People use Kubernetes for way too small things, and it sounds like you don't have the scale for actually running Kubernetes.

In some sense, Kubernetes is just a portable platform for running Linux services, even on a single node using something like K3s. I almost see it as being an extension of the Linux OS layer.

Yep, this is the way. Linux is just a platform for running services on one or more computers without needing to know about those computers individually, and even if your scale is 1, it's often easier to install k3s and manage your services with it rather than memorizing a bunch of disparate tools with their own configuration languages, filepath conventions, etc. It's just a lot easier to use k3s than it is to cobble together stuff with traditional linux tools. It's a standard, scalable pane of glass and as much as I may dislike kubectl, it's worlds better than systemctl and journalctl and the like.

Re: I am building a cloud

#380

Post by evanphx »

radlad wrote: post #348
shimman wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me old fashion but I prefer tools like Dokploy that make deployment across different VPS extremely easy. Dokploy allows me to utilize my home media server, using local instances of forgejo to deploy code, to great effect. k8s appears to be a corporate welfare jobs program where trillion dollar multinational monopolistic companies are the only ones who can collectively spend 100s of millions sustaining. Since mos…

Just as a quick aside, I tried Coolify, Dokploy, Dockge, and Komodo, and if you're trying to do a Heroku-style PaaS, Dokploy is really good. Hands down the best UX for delivering apps & databases. It's too bad about the licensing. (e.g. OIDC + audit logs behind a paid enterprise license.) Coolify is full of features, but the UX suffers and they had a nasty breaking bug at one point (related to Traefik if you want to…

If you're open, love to get your thoughts on https://miren.dev. We've doing similar things, but leaning into the small team aspects of these systems, along with giving folks an optional cloud tie in to help with auth, etc.
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