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Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#371

Post by AngryData »

sir0010010 wrote: post #181
unethical_ban wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My suspicion is that alcohol is mind-altering in ways smoking is not, and has a large effect on social interactions in business and romance and coping with the drudgery of daily life. Take away smoking from the next generation and they move to caffeine or vapes. Take away alcohol and there are revolutions and religious extremist revivals.

Taking away smoking still solves the secondhand smoke issue.

Secondhand smoke is such a small effect with current levels of smoking and smoking laws that it is hard to even discern data about it.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#372

Post by AngryData »

FL33TW00D wrote: post #141
alsetmusic wrote: post #33

As a former smoker (who quit for seven years and regrets taking it up again), and as a present-day vape user, wtf. This is a clear restriction on liberty. It may be stupid that I do it. Just like many stupid decisions (junk food included), it ought to be my right to decide how to live. Cut off production so cigarettes are no longer made or imported. Don't block me from them while letting others have them. (Not in UK)…

In a country with a national health system, why should you be able to internalize the benefit of smoking whilst externalizing the cost?

Smokers cost less in medical care because they die of heart attack and stroke before they get old enough for age-related care, along with smoking disqualifying people from many common procedures. Plus the sin taxes they pay already bring in more revenue than their entire lifetime medical costs.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#373

Post by noduerme »

squigz wrote: post #175
afavour wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> purely a product of decades of expensively paid-for indoctrination No, it's because being around a smoker is deeply unpleasant. I'm old enough to remember going out before the indoor smoking ban took effect. The next morning I'd step into the shower and the smell of smoke would fill the bathroom as I washed it out of my hair. I would have a sore throat. It was all absolutely disgusting and we're so much better off…

Being against things like TFA does not mean one is against things like banning indoor smoking. Just like being for alcohol doesn't mean one wants to legalize drunk driving. > No, it's because being around a smoker is deeply unpleasant. Being around drinkers isn't exactly a picnic :)

Being around anyone who's disrespecting your own preferences sucks. There are two useful things to do and one antisocial thing to do in that scenario.

Useful: Don't go there, or ask someone near you to be considerate.

Antisocial: Hide and wait for the government to ban people doing it, until some theoretical future day where you feel comfortable being in a public space around people who may make you uncomfortable.

I'm a very considerate smoker. I'd never smoke by someone who was bothered by it. It truly pisses me off when smokers are inconsiderate.

On the other hand, shaping other people's behavior to your liking strikes me as sociopathic. Using the government to do so strikes me as spineless. If I'm going into their happy space, to a yoga retreat or an orgy or a wedding, I have to accept that they will do lots of things I might not enjoy. The difference is that I don't have a sense of superiority because I lack their mental flaws and sociopathic addictions to whatever they believe, but they have that sense of superiority in judging mine. And only because they have safety in numbers, which makes it even more pathetic.

This is also how I feel being an all night coder. Everyone is fine with making noise during the day and waking me up, because that's "normal" and my schedule isn't. But if I feel like playing piano at 4am, that is a problem, even if the asshole next door takes out his lawnmower at 7am. This is a division between people who want to be nice to each other, and respectful, versus those who think there is a single correct way to live and that anyone deviating from it doesn't deserve equal respect.

"Live and let live" seems to have lost its currency among the hysteria of everyone who righteously disapproves of other people's behavior. Not everywhere in the world needs to be safe for someone's individual bundle of neuroses. What's unfortunate is that we can't rely on individuals respecting other individuals now, so via the government the most repressive scenario presented by the least imaginative party in each case largerly wins. Everyone who wants to ban someone else's behavior should have the opportunity to have one of their own banned as well, to understand this phenomenon. But the safety in numbers overrides this. Which is also to say that the mass of humans are conformist cowards.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#374

Post by tsoukase »

Smoking is debilitating, so is alcohol, drugs and gambling. Since the last >100 we see a trend to gradually restrict them, one by one, albeit inconsistently. Smoking was a casual habit in the 60s, next it was banned indoors and now before a certain age. In the (not too) distant future it might me totally banned next to its cousin, cannabis. Tldr, the decision is not surprising but expected, following the trend.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#375

Post by efilife »

apetrov wrote: post #287
lokar wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This lack of social consensus is the problem here. A national referendum would be better, as it provides a way to force people to consider the changes and decide.

great idea, let's people without skin in the game to vote for whose who have.

let us people?

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#377

Post by olalonde »

mock-possum wrote: post #188
olalonde wrote: post #78

What about tourists and foreigners? Most smokers can't go more than a few hours without smoking... This will surely lead to a large black market.

Why not just get your nicotine fix via one of the handful of other delivery methods which are not banned? Or just find a local black market doggie hookup, same as you would for any other illegal substance? If you’re a pothead who can’t make it through your day without a smoke, then god knows you’ll find a connect - and if you’re addicted to cigarettes, I’m pretty sure you won’t have much trouble getting your fix.

For a lot of smokers, e-cigarettes and other alternatives don't cut it. But I agree there'll likely be a black market.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#378

Post by gloosx »

afavour wrote: post #34
mytailorisrich wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is also part of a trend. More and more control over people's lives, more and more bans. Beyond whether something is "bad for you", the key aspect in a free society is whether the State should decide for you (we're entrusted with the right to vote, after all). Demolition Man has turned out to be the most accurate prediction of the future regarding those issues among all the 90s movies. Quite interesting.

I see smoking as a separate category owing to the existence of second hand smoke. Smoking in a room with other people adversely affects those people. I think government is the correct body to be intervening in that scenario.

[dead]

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#379

Post by ErroneousBosh »

butlike wrote: post #297
ErroneousBosh wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the second-hand vape issue though. Those of us who don't smoke or vape can smell that shit a couple of hundred metres away.

Those of us who don't drive can smell the exhaust a couple hundred meters away, too.

Sounds like you're using the wrong fuel. If we'd switched all the petrol cars over to propane instead of having "scrappage schemes" to sell people new "cleaner greener diesels" - and you see how that worked out - then we'd have pristine fresh air in our cities now.

But that doesn't sell nearly enough debt.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#380

Post by ramblerman »

gcanyon wrote: post #16

There are two separate issues here: 1. will this work (will the UK stop smoking) 2. is this something the UK government should be doing Setting aside 1 and looking at 2, it seems silly to me to point out that other things (alcohol) that cause problems and are not being restricted. You take the wins where you find them, and the government isn't a magical force that can impose its will on the people arbitrarily. This i…

> The UK doesn't support cigarettes, so the law gets passed. If someone has a public opinion poll there showing less than 50% support for this, I'd love to see it.

Isn't the impetus on the makers of this bill to show there is more than 50% support for this.

I'm not a fan of smoking but this isn't the governments job imo. Not to mention the odd precedent of do what I say not as I do, with different laws for different generations.

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