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You are not your job

jry.io

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Re: You are not your job

#371

Post by asdff »

svessi wrote: post #225

My father in law lost his job 2 years ago, completely unrelated to AI, at the age of 63. He had worked this same job since he was 18 and it was his identity. He'd almost greet people with "Hey I'm CEO, my friends and family call me X". Being fired from his own company completely destroyed him - and not because he's worried about the financial aspect, he doesn't need to worry about that at this point. I remember watch…

Makes you wonder with some of the dinosaurs in office if a big reason why they cling on is that internal mythmaking. Presumably everyone knows they can just up and kick back by some body of water doing whatever they'd like with their time, should they ever want to step down. And yet they don't. They prefer their busy, stressful, life of importance.

Me personally I'm just not wired like that. I work hard only to get to that payoff of being lazy and carefree later. I don't actually like being in this stressful state. It bewilders me frankly that some seemingly are addicted to it. Maybe they literally are, considering flight or flight response is a real measured altering of neurotransmitters.

Re: You are not your job

#372

Post by Supermancho »

JuniperMesos wrote: post #214

> When Bronnie Ware interviewed people at the end of their lives, she asked them about their regrets. The clearest pattern wasn't hard to see. Nobody was lying on their deathbed wishing they'd earned more money or accomplished more. I'm reminded of the story of the great manga artist Tezuka Osamu, who, as he was dying of stomach cancer in a hospital bed at the end of his life, begged to be given a pencil to let him c…

I've been on death's door at least 3 times. Sepsis, heart failure, complications from Pneumonia. Each and every time, I've wished I had made more money and accomplished more. The money for my family after me, and the accomplishments for my own ego to feel like my life contributed to part of humanity. I have had a top 10 concrete goals since I was under 10. I have completed many, but not all.

Re: You are not your job

#373

Post by asdff »

Tor3 wrote: post #176

The focus on "what you do" is very US-centric (or possibly North American). When you meet someone then one of the very first things asked is "what do you do" or something to that extent. What your job is. But it's not like that at all elsewhere in the world. It varies a lot. I myself never ask that question, unless it's for a very specific reason. And _never_ as part of an introduction. I've known people for decades…

Americans have this culture of killing the individual in adulthood I've noticed. It seemingly starts with parenthood. Parents are sold the myth that they ought to have no time for themselves, that they ought to drop all their hobbies and anything that made them them, and turn into this machine that either works or putts around with the baby the whole time. The idea of childcare or babysitter seen as "missing out." This frenetic behavior seems to last until the kid is an adolescent and has to set boundaries on the overbearing parents.

It wasn't always like this. Parents used to have more hobbies. Maybe dad was a bowler. Maybe mom was in a gardening club. Where was the kid? With the village of course: grand parents, baby sitter, playing with other kids in the neighborhood.

Re: You are not your job

#374

Post by BobbyJo »

ajb wrote: post #254
BobbyJo wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But no, I guess they aren’t economically important. I actually don’t like how every soul has been reduced to an efficiency metric, surprised how much I find forums like this accept that framing. Efficiency is the metric of nature. Thinking about human life in any other terms than input and output is objectively a luxury, afforded only to societies with surplus resources. Calling it "framing" feels a little disingen…

Okay, so when you, BobbyJo, become too old or unwell to work; other people should just shoot you in the head and take your stuff, right? It would only be efficient. Or does this 'harsh reality" only apply to other people?

Modern society has the luxury of surplus resources at the moment, and we are able to take care of the old and weak, which we indeed choose to do. If/when that ceases to be the case, the harsh reality will apply to everyone, me included, yes.

Re: You are not your job

#375

Post by asdff »

coffeefirst wrote: post #264
Tor3 wrote: post #176

The focus on "what you do" is very US-centric (or possibly North American). When you meet someone then one of the very first things asked is "what do you do" or something to that extent. What your job is. But it's not like that at all elsewhere in the world. It varies a lot. I myself never ask that question, unless it's for a very specific reason. And _never_ as part of an introduction. I've known people for decades…

This is highly regional within the US. You’ll see a lot more of it amongst NYC professionals than anywhere in the Midwest.

Yeah and I think it reflects the sorts of jobs people have. A lot of my buddies have these jobs they themselves think are pretty stupid but hey, they were hiring. They aren't going to identify as some salesperson of payroll software though. Probably literally no one in that industry does. It isn't rocket surgery. It just pays the bills.

Re: You are not your job

#376

Post by wobfan »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #155
abcde666777 wrote: post #122

Being able to see ourselves as something beyond our job (our means of survival) is a luxury. If a person can't provide for themselves the rest goes out the window fast. The only way to ease the anxiety in people isn't with fluff about their 'human worth', but rather to help them envision other tangible and plausible ways in which they can provide for themselves. The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we…

Reminds me of a very old essay on Cracked that says something very similar: https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-y...

I feel like that article contradicts the meaning of OPs article in almost every way.

The Cracked article comes from a very neoliberal, self-optimization hustle-grind culture: work on yourself so you're worth more for others: an incredibly, if not exclusively, extrinsic motivation. While OPs article seems more focused on your internal presence, your relationships and being with people, not for people. Cracked says to work hard and complain less, produce more so your skillset is more worthy to other people. OPs article says to practice presence and true connection.

The only thing I can find that connects both is that they have a mindset of anti-passivity, but that's all.

Ahh, edit: thought you replied directly to OP, that's why I thought you meant that the Cracked article is similar to OPs article. Sorry!

Re: You are not your job

#377

Post by BobbyJo »

sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #347
BobbyJo wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But no, I guess they aren’t economically important. I actually don’t like how every soul has been reduced to an efficiency metric, surprised how much I find forums like this accept that framing. Efficiency is the metric of nature. Thinking about human life in any other terms than input and output is objectively a luxury, afforded only to societies with surplus resources. Calling it "framing" feels a little disingen…

It is a luxury we can, as a species, afford! We actually have the capacity and capability to house, feed, and clothe everyone on the planet, and then some. The frame can shift because our capabilities have increased.

I mostly agree. We have the capacity at present, but only because we are burning a ton of non renewable energy.

Re: You are not your job

#378

Post by wobfan »

vvs29 wrote: post #366
helloplanets wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are in fact very disposable and replaceable. To your friends and family as well? Or just your employer? You're describing things that may well be true for a lot of employers, but fall apart outside of that context.

Apart from a few, friends and family who care about you can be counted on one hand as well. When automation replaces our job or diminishes our economic worth many fold, not many friends and family remain unchanged. You parents, your siblings maybe and maybe 1-2 of your closest friends. Others will drift apart because we are in a different lifestyle now. Heck, even without any change, parent/siblings drift apart for m…

> Apart from a few, friends and family who care about you can be counted on one hand as well.

It's not about the quantity but about the quality of friendships and human connection. I couldn't care less about the number of my friends. I do care a lot though about the connection to them.

Re: You are not your job

#379

Post by wobfan »

serial_dev wrote: post #206
helloplanets wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are in fact very disposable and replaceable. To your friends and family as well? Or just your employer? You're describing things that may well be true for a lot of employers, but fall apart outside of that context.

For some rare once-in-a-lifetime friendships, you are not disposable, and if anything were to happen to you, you would be missed. I can count those on one hand. For most casual acquaintances (that some people incorrectly label as friends), it's certainly true. On the family's side: only parents, siblings, children, maybe some aunt or grandparent. Second distant cousin you saw 3 times in life?

> I can count those on one hand.

What's the problem about that?

I'd rather have my family and 1-2 close friends, and literally no one else, instead of 100 close friends that will vanish as soon as I am not able to bring anything to the table anymore, which will inevitably happen for everyone.

Re: You are not your job

#380

Post by NoSalt »

> "This bothers a lot of people for a reason (I think) that has nothing to do with the technology. The fear isn't really about losing a job title, it's about losing the story you tell yourself about who you are."

No, it is 100% about the fear of losing a job due to companies replacing skilled people with AI.

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